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Author Topic: Exorbitant prices for super 8
Thomas Edwards
Film Handler

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From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2017


 - posted March 07, 2018 02:56 AM      Profile for Thomas Edwards   Email Thomas Edwards   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some of the prices for 8 mm features on the forum are very exorbitant. I recently purchased a super 8 feature from a dealer which was less than half the price some are asking. Super8 is a limited market lets see some reasonable prices.

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted March 07, 2018 11:47 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
well, a good deal of the problem (?) is what some folks, who have the cash to spread around, will pay for a super 8 feature.

A case in point was an ebay auction recently for a L.P.P. derann feature of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit". I knew I couldn't afford it at the 600.00 dollar amount (how much it was when i first saw it), but I decided to watch the ebay auction and it got to a rediculously high amount of 1,100.00 dollars!!

Now, I certainly love this film, but i would never pay that much. The problem is, other people will see that staggering amount and will then assume that they're copy is also worth that, so they jack up they're prices as well. Hey, you can't really blame them for wanting to make as much as they can for they're specific print of the film ...

... but it totally prices out of the running us middle class poor slobs from getting those long treasured feature films. [Roll Eyes]

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 07, 2018 11:53 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As i have said many times, i wont ever pay stupid prices for a movie, at the end of the day thats what it is , A Movie. For those who have the dosh etc then good on them but i live in the real world and also have a life outside of the hobby.
Having said that, all these prices will do is put off anyone who is even just thinking about joining the hobby.
This subject has been covered many times on the forums but others will just say it's supply and demand, unfortunately i dont buy that, if the only way you could watch a film or project a film was with the machines we have then i would understand it, but you can buy top quality digital forms of projection which cost less than some top end projectors and the films on Blu ray are peanuts of the price of cine films with fade and scratches. Ours is a hobby, quite an expensive one, (as many hobby's are) but before to many more years pass there will be fewer good projectors to show films on. Then what will the value of films do? [Wink]

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Alan Rik
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From: New York City, NY, USA
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 - posted March 07, 2018 01:06 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If something is priced to high it will not sell and then the seller has to lower the price. This market is constantly in flux.
Remember a few months back, maybe almost a year ago when print prices got up there in the stratosphere?
Now they are actually coming down again. "Lady and the Tramp" sold for around $250. "Independence Day" for $499. "Little Mermaid" for $305. These are Derann prices folks. This is what I used to pay for Derann films from their list when they had them in stock.
I do what I think some other collectors do and that is to sell some titles to get new titles. Money out, money into the hobby. So if I want to get that copy of "Rocky" which use to sell for $400 but now sells for around $600...I'll have to sell my print of something else for around the same. Asking sellers to lower their price to me is funny. Of course I think it... who doesn't want a bargain? But in reality the prices for the most part will reflect what is going on in the free market. It is what it is. Super 8 has always always been expensive. Its just more expensive now! [Smile]

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted March 07, 2018 01:08 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you compare apple to apple (the same title) between dealer price vs forum price then it is silly if somebody is buying higher price from a forum member.

But if you just say a full feature then there are several most desirable titles which definetely constitute higher price than the "normal" $250sh for a color and sound full feature.

But free market price will tell.

[ March 07, 2018, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

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Winbert

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Alan Rik
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From: New York City, NY, USA
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 - posted March 07, 2018 01:17 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even one of my favorite dealers is not immune to the market. Normally in the past the prices were in the ball park of what I expected to pay. Yet on the last list of theirs they had "Jurassic Park" for $900!! I wasn't expecting that from the dealer but then again.. why should they sell it for much cheaper if they can get what they are asking.
I inquired about it so I called..it sold.

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
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 - posted March 07, 2018 01:29 PM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm with Tom on this,digital projection is more appealing on titles that are over priced,over the years I've been lucky enough to own some very nice titles,sold a lot of them now but that's fine also as I've watched them on real film and had the experience of doing so,as a title went I bought the DVD or bluray,I still have a decent sized collection but haven't been buying lately mainly due to paying good money for films not as described,that's one of the pitfalls of the hobby now,greed and selling over priced crap,Mark

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 07, 2018 02:44 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Exactly Mark, as you know we have ventured into 16mm, once i get my max titles it will stay at that, so far this year i haven't bought any super 8, again, for the same reasons as Mark, a few i bought were not quite as good as i expected, or the prices are laughable, one or two i was not happy with, but, if someone has a big big bank account then fair enough but unfortunately its the principle of paying the price of a good second hand car for a movie that you may watch a few times in as many years.
Apart from that, 16mm has taught me one thing, the amount of better titles out there with an almost guaranteed quality is more appealing, especially the prices, i know even with this gauge premium titles are going through the roof now but thats where digital projection will call into play. Let me think, Raiders of the lost Ark feature on super 8? upward toward a thousand pounds? The same on 16mm? Or a Blu ray with all the extra's, no scratches, no splices, never fade, £10. [Big Grin] And projected onto the same screen as my cine.
I know its not the same but i can live with that as we have amassed a good collection over the years like most of us. Being mid 50's now the reality of it all is starting to kick in. [Wink]

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted March 07, 2018 03:25 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We are all here the old folks of super 8mm collecting, some of us had been member of this forum since 2003...geeez that was 15 years ago!

It is not new, we are now really picky to buy films not like 15 years ago when anything came up on super 8mm seen to be bargain for us.

So if you now only buy certain desire titles on super 8mm, that is normal. And if you think it is better to screen Blu-ray rather than spending exorbitant prices for super 8mm, then that is more than normal, just like I did at home. But, don't forget there are always new guys in super 8mm collecting world to buy them just like we did 15 years ago!! [Wink]

Comparing Film vs Digital would just be awaking a long old time debate, that is not useful to be discussed in this film forum [Wink]

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Winbert

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 07, 2018 03:34 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Agree there Winbert, i never compare the two as they are both different complete opposites and both excellent in there own rights. Digital has now come an awful long way in a very short time.
My main point is that i for one just wont pay ridiculous prices for what is a movie. I would love every film i like on super 8 or 16 but while prices are what they are for the good titles i just cannot justify it any longer. If you take the example of the new minions cartoon being advertised, and it is great to see a new release, its something like £70, but its 5 minutes long. How do sell that to family and friends?

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Oliver F. R. Feld
Master Film Handler

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From: Berlin, Germany
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 - posted March 07, 2018 03:56 PM      Profile for Oliver F. R. Feld   Email Oliver F. R. Feld   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even prices for cutdowns are exorbitant at the moment: after marketing-films STAR TREK 3-reeler was sold for 173 Euros at eBay it was topped by CRACK IN THE WORLD which was sold for 223 Euros last week ...! You had to pay 150 DM (75 Euros) for 1 reel in the 80s, so in the end this title is there where it once started: at its original price.

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Will Trenfield
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From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
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 - posted March 07, 2018 05:26 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A print of Disney's "The Old Mill" sold for £22 on eBay the other day. There were screen shots but the seller stated that the photos were not from the film for sale and were only used as a guide.....

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David Baker
Expert Film Handler

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From: Hamilton , Ohio
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 07, 2018 06:24 PM      Profile for David Baker   Email David Baker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting subject .

Here's what was said the last time I asked this question in 2014...

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009545#000011

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Dave Ruth
Film Handler

Posts: 84
From: Easton, PA, USA
Registered: Dec 2014


 - posted March 07, 2018 08:22 PM      Profile for Dave Ruth   Email Dave Ruth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I’m glad to see so many people agreeing with Mr Edwards. I have a limit on what I will spend on a feature. The good part is I am successful some of the time, and when the price gets too high I just brush it off and figure it’ll come around again. The bad part is I don’t want to get the reputation of being cheap amongst my fellow collectors and have them ignore my wanted posts.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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 - posted March 08, 2018 01:32 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave i think like most people you are just being realistic as we are. If all collectors got a bank loan and bought every top title that came up then the prices would keep going up. Looking at most dealer lists our films are still priced as normal. At the end of the day there are always people around who are able to pay ten time what a film is worth but i do think eventualy prices may normalise once there are a lot less projectors to show them on.
I also think that if you took ebay out of the ring film prices prices probably would never have got this high. You still have clowns on there selling 400ft cut downs with starting prices in excess of £50. And i do see people putting up features with start prices at 600 or more. When they dont get any interest they begin to creep down. These,in my opinion, are people just jumping on the rip off band wagon. If people refuse to pay they will gave to drop or keep them.

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted March 08, 2018 05:29 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No Tom...I disagree...

Although projectors are declining but there are bunch of people buying films for the sake of nostalgia. This will keep the price higher.

Again I have to say that just like the revival of vinyls, 70% who bought them actually still listen to the music via MP3.

This also will apply on this film collecting scene. Many young people buy film for the sake of coolness. They watch DVD or BD.

Those young collectors are buying films like us ....15 years ago!

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Winbert

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Tom Photiou
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 - posted March 08, 2018 06:32 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, lets hope so, i wouldn't see our films become worthless one day. I Know the Star Wars fanatics will always want that original 1977 version and on film. Nutters [Big Grin]

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Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
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 - posted March 08, 2018 06:41 AM      Profile for Mark Mander   Email Mark Mander   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert,
Tom has been a collector of films since the 70s, stuck with it in the decline and now is experiencing it all over again with 16mm,his comments are valid,being a collector for that long it would be easy to go out of control and let the impulsive nature of the hobby take over but he knows his limits and where the market has changed purchase wise.

As for a vinyl revival for many it never went away including myself,yes new sales are up but the second hand market has always been bouyant,Mark

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David Hardy
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From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted March 08, 2018 10:20 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am with Tom and David on this one.

I have been a film collector since 1967. So that's man and boy.
However recently I have decided to collect 16mm only.

Things are not that simple though because some of my 16mm purchases have not been as advertised. Crap in fact.

I am now at the stage of packing it all in selling my prints.
Putting the money I get from the sales and funding my model railway hobby and some new hi-fi equipment and a new Video Projector and sticking with Blu-Ray for my movie viewing.

So the day may not be to far away now. I do live in the real world. Nostalgia can get a terrible unhealthy hold of some people but not me. It is after all only a hobby and only films. [Big Grin]

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Oliver F. R. Feld
Master Film Handler

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From: Berlin, Germany
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 - posted March 08, 2018 11:13 AM      Profile for Oliver F. R. Feld   Email Oliver F. R. Feld   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To me it is passion... Not a hobby...
Call me old fashioned, but collecting celluloid features
is real cinema as it’s meant to be...
I collect for 40 years and it was never cheap...
Then there was a time 15 years ago (when the beamers found their way
into the living rooms) when features were sold on attractive
prices ...
Now they increase again...
It’s great that the market is alive!
And this passion never seems to end!

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Osi Osgood
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From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
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 - posted March 08, 2018 11:23 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, most definitely, a passion!

... and then, there's the bargains! i just bought from the U.K. an L.P.P. RKO pictures full feature of "The Girl most likely" (1958, an enjoyable musical) for just 27 pounds, so the bargains are certainly out there as well.

I was the one that bid up "Old Mill to 21 pounds, and got outbid at the last moment, but I'm certainly glad that I didn't win it, hearing that the other screenshots were NOT from the print. I know i had a print of that title on low fade film stock, but about 40 seconds into film the preprint material went from gorgeous color to very bluish, and i noticed that the pictures showing the actual frames only went up to about 40 or so seconds, so I'm betting that the rest of the print had that bluish color.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Tom Photiou
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 - posted March 08, 2018 11:40 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is what i like about 16mm, you can get great stuff at very low prices, (occasionally on 8 as well), but as Mark said, i am now into 16 and am seeing the beginning of where super 8 is now, i jumped in 20 years too late. [Big Grin]

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted March 08, 2018 01:34 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Today...those young boys also buy reel to reel as a cool stuff...some of them start collecting them...especially the 1/4 " due to compactness of the size.

We understand that there are 1/2" as well as 1" (also 2" but very rare and was used only for big studio).

This is the parallelism with our film collecting hobby:

1/4" = 8mm
1/2" = 16mm
1" = 35mm
2" = 70mm

The 1/4" price will go up because they are easily absorbed by the market and players are relatively flooding the market, as well as the compactness of the size.

You guys who collect 16mm and up (or 1/2" or up) will be still getting cheap films/tapes.....so please continue to do so... and facing the real issue of storage...!

But this thread is about the exorbitant price for super 8mm. That is why I was saying it will continue to happen...no matter what.
[Wink]

Cheers,

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Winbert

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Joe Caruso
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 - posted March 08, 2018 01:51 PM      Profile for Joe Caruso   Email Joe Caruso   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Film, like many hobbies will fluctuate with the technology that follows, i.e. digital - Now, I've never ventured to feature-length films from Derann and other outfits, so I really have little to add on this debate - Only Blackhawk, with L&H features and such, all well and good with prices that never are truly unreasonable nowadays - I remained with shorts and such novelties because many are not on Blu-Ray, I eagerly hound about for the best price on these used subjects whether in original box or not - When I had a large 16mm collection, again I went with the fairest prices and would never go beyond what I felt a film's value was or is - Okay, in 16, I had PHANTOM, GENERAL and other longer-films, but again most under $200 - Today, I wouldn't touch them - So, I kept with the smaller gauges of 8, Super 8, even some 9.5 - Prices generally aren't too high, though EBAY kills many chances - Well, had to throw my nickel on this - Go ahead on - Shorty

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David Hardy
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From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
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 - posted March 08, 2018 02:12 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Guys I think any passion I had for film was well and truely knocked out of me during my 40+ years as a cinema projectionist.

It started as a hobby then became a passion then returned to being just a hobby again. [Wink] [Smile] [Smile]

I have no passion for the prices asked for some film prints these days that's for sure.

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