Som Berthiot Pan Cinor 1,9/20 focus ring stuck

[Roberto Follia]

Dear all,
Trying to bring back to life my pathe webo A (book shaped camera with charger), find the lens has focuns ring stuck. Don't want to force anything. Don't want toput a tiny drop of oil (besides I don't see where the helicoids are). Is there any way besides applying heat ro unjam?
Remember having done that many years ago with a 50mm fixed lens from a Mamiya reflex, but the pan cinor is so tiny.
best regards

[Simon Wyss]

Hi, Roberto. I service mechanical cinemachinery and optics professionally. Please have a look around on my website. Nice to read of someone’s interest in 9mm½.

[Roberto Follia]

Dear Mr. Wyss
Thank you somuch for your reply. I took a very detailed look at your web page and it's impressive. You can also recommission clockwork springs, which I thought were not possible to save once broken.
I've taken a detailed look at my camera and it seems too far gone to be saved.
Being a Webo Rio with the webo chargers, there is a problem with all them. They are worn (or very worn), even inserting a length f developed test film, they don't manage to make it advance. Only in one of them the claw manages to engage in the perforation, but is very very noisy. The other chargers simply don't work.
Besides, somebody drilled a hole in the camera's back wall, close to the hinge, so the shutter can be seen working. Yes it can be filled with epoxy, sandedm painted black with anti reflective paint.
but that will not solve the webo chargers problems.
Had thought about saving it, even with the stuck focus ring due to the webo chargers holding up to 50ft of film (15m). But they were problemsome once worn.
think it's much better using or the camex ercsam or the pathe national II, far more reliable, even though the chargers only hold less than 9m of film.

Best regards
Robert

[Simon Wyss]

A list of cameras for 9½-mm. film. If it will help you decide what to look for, see:

1. ALEF A-B-B 1-C; 1932
2. Argus, Thames Cine Products Ltd, Ashford; 1930
3. Beaulieu C/T/M 9.5; 1951-52 to 1958
4. Beaulieu Reflex 9,5; 1961
5. Campro, Réversible, Home Cine Cameras, Ltd, London; 1935
6. Ciné-GEL Reinette, Le Mans; 1952 to 1954
7. Ciné-GEL HL Reinette; 1955 to 1963
8. Ciné-Nizo 9½ A; 192?
9. Ciné-Nizo 9½ Mod. F; 1929 (?)
10. Ciné-Nizo 9½ Mod. K; 1933?
11. Ciné-Nizo 9½ Mod. M; 1933?
12. Ciné-Nizo 9½ Mod. R
13. Coronet, Birmingham; 1930 ?
14. Dekko 104, 1934 ?
15. Ditmar 2190; 1935
16. Ditmar 2290 with selenium cell
17. Ercsam Camex; 1946, 1948 with bajonet
18. ETM P(ériscope); 1946-47
19. Eumig C 1; 1932
20. Eumig C 2; 1935
21. Eumig C 39; 1938 (200 examples)
22. Eumig C 59, like C 39, without selenium cell
23. Excel Moto, Mod. E, L, and Pony, Nippon Eigaki & Co., Japan; 1937
24. Facine, Soc. Facin, Boulogne-sur-Seine;1935
25. G(roupement) I(ndustriel) C(inématographique) 9.5; 1949
26. Kinarri, Arnold & Richter; 19??
27. Midas, Réversible, England; 1933
28. Miller, Ken Miller, 1930; M. Cine Co. (M. & T. C. Lane), Gloucester (1934-60); April 1934, Mod. B 1938
29. Movirex, SEFRAM-SAFAC; successor to the GIC
30. Paillard-Bolex H 9; 1936 to 1947
31. Pathé Lido; 1955 to 1964, 1958 four speeds
32. Pathé Moto; 1927
33. Pathéscope PAT; 1953 to 1956
34. Pathéscope Prince, England, made by Smiths Industries, Cheltenham, similar to Moto; 1959
35. Pathé WEBO A; 1946
36. Pathé WEBO A Luxe; 1954, from 1957-58 Pathé WEBO Rio
37. Pathé WEBO M/Super; 1946
38. Pathé WEBO Rio, 1960; 1968 taken over by André Ligonie: Limatic
39. Pathé-Baby; 1923
40. PLB, Paul & Louis Bedet; 1948
41. PLB 51; 1951
42. Screnus, Réversible; 1930
43. Suchánek Admira Ledvinka; 1933
44. SU-GA Universel, Paris; 1936
45. Tourist, Matériel Cinématographique Moulin, Paris; 1947, 1950 renamed Starlett, until 1955

[Roberto Follia]

Dear Mr. Wyss.
Thank you so much for the such a comprehensive list. Never knew there had been so many manufacturers and models. Knew about Camex, Bolex and Eumig, but not the other ones.
Have talen a look at my other Pathe cameras (National II and Camex Ercsam). Both have clean lenses, sparapee chargers, and shutter speeds are accurate. Focus rings and aperture are smooth. National II looks more rug reliable and more portable than Ercsam, and just 0,7m more film in the charger (ercsam) does not make me favour the ercsam to the National
Best regards

[Simon Wyss]

If we only had fresh film! My 9.5 cameras are terribly dissatisfied. I have a Beaulieu Reflex, a Paillard-Bolex H, and a GIC.

[Roberto Follia]

Mr Otte in Hildesheim is reperforing me 2 x 30'5 m rolls, 1xFomapan R100 and 1x Orwo UN54. One I gave him in hand in the Festimatge international 9,5mm film festival in Calella. The other one I bought in Paris and I sent him yesterday.
Colorsfilmarchives (former cine dia) I think already has in stock the Ektachrome 100D (even though it is listed as Velvia) under 9,5mm film, sold "tout compris", it's available in various lengths.
By my side I am trying to get my hands on a suitable length of Kodak Vision to have it re slitted-reperf in 9,5 by Mr. Otte, or in Std 8 in case it is double perf. in order to have it cross processed The only material I have found is Vision 200T in UK(expired 2001 so dangerous), Vision 2 200T (more recent, from about 2004 but in Thailand, and then there's shipping, customs duties and.... Xray in airports...which I don't like at all), and Eastman 100T 7248, this one from 2001 and in Spain. Don't know which one can give best results when cross processed, as Mr Wachsmuth's report was from Vision3, and I am unsure which changes in emulsion might have taken place
Best regards

[Simon Wyss]

Oh, interesting. I was having contact with Mr. Otte years ago. Didn’t know that he still prepares ninefive film.

The pricing with Color Films Archives is horrible. My wish would be cheap black-and-white stocks, an ortho., a panchro., and a print film. Why the French don’t offer such is a mystery to me. They should be wanting as many people using 9.5 as possible, or am I wrong?

[Dominique De Bast]

The problem with black and white stock is that it cannot be process in France, as it is not legal.

[Simon Wyss]

Unless you can specify the respective law or enforcement I take that as a hoax.

[Dominique De Bast]

Unless you can specify the respective law or enforcement I take that as a hoax.

Hoax or not, I don't know, but this is what the French professionnals say. So, unless you can convince them they are wrong, I'm afraid there won't be black and white cine films process in France.

[Brian Fretwell]

I wonder if one on the chemicals used for B&W reversal processing is not permitted now, at least for commercial use.

[Roberto Follia]

In theory EU law does not allow France to process B&W reversal. But in theory all Europe should be more or less the same.
Some countries can process both colour & B&W reversal, so why France can not process B&W reversal? Maybe we will never know.
Best regards

[Simon Wyss]

Finally found it.

Plusieurs composés du chrome sont soumis à autorisation au titre de l’annexe XIV du
règlement REACH. Ces substances seront interdites sauf autorisation à utilisation et mise sur
le marché à partir :
-du 21 mai 2015 pour le chromate de plomb (CAS 7758-97-6), le jaune de sulfochromate
de plomb (CAS 1344-37-2), le rouge de chromate, de molybdate et de sulfate de plomb
(CAS 12656-85-8),
-du 21 septembre 2017 pour le trioxyde de chrome (CAS 1333-82-0), l’acide chromique
(CAS7738-94-5),l’acidedichromique(CAS13530-68-2),ledichromatedesodium
(CAS 7789-12-0), le dichromate de potassium (CAS7778-50-9)

https://www.cancer-environnement.fr/...pos%C3%A9s.pdf

Potassium dichromate is used for the bleach bath after first development.

[Roberto Follia]

Un grand merci.