Wanted: first 16mm sound projector

[Scott Walker]

Hi all

im looking for my first 16mm sound projector and as there’s so many I hoped someone can steer me the right way and hopefully have something spare they could sell me.

im looking for an entry level sound projector that runs well, is kind to film, can play features (so accepts reels of common sizes for this case). I also would love to have it so i could get a scope lens for it at some point.

mare films still with magnetic sound like super 8 or are we looking more at optical with 16mm? If so I’d like to manage handling that.

This will be used at my apartment so something that’s not huge would be great.

I live in Brooklyn, New York City so happy to pay shipping costs to here also.

many help much appreciated.

oh I should add. I’m looking for a decent but affordable 16mm camera also but can save this for another time.

best


scott

[Maurice Leakey]

Scott
Here is a nice looking 16mm Eiki optical sound projector for sale in New York. Perhaps it might be local to you for examination and a demonstration.
Vintage EIKI NT-0 16mm Optical Sound Projector (Made In Japan) | eBay

[Scott Walker]

Ooh thank you! So does 16mm commonly come as optical rather than magnetic?

thanks so much for your help finding this.

[Brian Fretwell]

There aren't many 16mm magnetic sound prints it was much cheaper to produce optical and by the time amateurs had the facilities to make sound films most had gone to 8mm, so not many optical 16mm projectors were needed.

[Maurice Leakey]

...So does 16mm commonly come as optical rather than magnetic?...

Scott

I am not sure if you mean films or projectors. Some films had magnetic sound tracks, often foreign films with their optical track overlaid with a magnetic stripe with English dialogue.

Many years ago a cinema in which I worked had a 16mm Eiki Xenon projector which was optical and magnetic playback. For the Tatler Cinema Club most films were foreign uncensored and they had an English magnetic track. The optical track films were also shown at other times of the week.

Many amateurs and some professionals shot 16mm movies and later had them striped so there was a need for some projectors to have the facility for magnetic recording. These model projectors are quite rare, but there are many models which offer optical/magnetic playback at a more expensive price than the optical only models.

If you intend to show only 16mm features (or shorts) the model which I quoted will be quite adequate. It will accommodate spools up to a length of 2200 feet, most 16mm features come on 1600 feet spools. 400 feet of film will run for around 11 minutes.

By the way, in the the USA you use the term "reels" although here in the UK this refers to the length of the film, i.e. two or three reels for an average 16mm feature.

You said about buying a camera. It depends how you want to use it. If you need to have sound on them the finished film needs to have a magnetic stripe applied and you you will also need an optical playback/magnetic record & playback projector. These are very rare on the second-hand market.

[Scott Walker]

Ah thank you!

ok so the projector is needed to playback feature films (when I get them) so if they’re optical then I shall get a machine that deals with that. the one you pointed out looks great but is far away from me and pickup only but I’ll contact them.

For my own stuff with a camera it’ll be silent so just need to be able to project it, no sound needed.

really appreciate your help!

best


scott

[Maurice Leakey]

Scott

You are correct.

As regards silent film, most projectors now run at 18 frames per second for silent films (sound film runs at 24 frames per second).

Some cameras only run at 16 fps for silent, this makes the projected film run a trifle faster which may be noticeable on projection. But you could run the camera at 24 fps to match the sound speed of the projector.

I do think it advisable to visit the seller if you can manage it, as this way you can be sure that the projector works OK. This Forum has members who have complained here that their unseen eBay purchase was not a wise thing to do as the item they received was faulty.

[Joe Taffis]

Scott, I sent you a PM

[Zachary Greenberg]

Hi Scott-
Maurice is definitely right pointing you in the direction of a Japanese portable 16mm projector like the Eiki. I am a fan of Elmo projectors but with Elmo you are mostly locked in using their brand of projector lens, even though they are universally of fantastic quality.
If you can find (and have the budget for) a portable Eiki or Elmo xenon, I highly recommend them.
The later "slot load" Elmo xenon projectors like the XP-350 are relatively new (early 1990s?), foolproof and gentle on film.
Indeed, the number one question nowadays, I think, that anyone has when it comes to getting a machine for projecting 16mm features is "Is it gentle and safe on film?"
I wouldn't really consider anything other than a Japanese portable projector.

[Maurice Leakey]

Unless you want to show films to a large audience a xenon lamp projector is not really needed. For one thing, the lamps are expensive, and not always available. And there is the problem of installing and setting up a new lamp.

The usual ELC lamps used in most of the later Eiki projectors are readily available and at a reasonable price. Their 250watt output will be quite sufficient for normal use. Most projectors have a two-position lamp switch which increases the lamp's life when used in the home.

New Sylvania ELC Tungsten Halogen Projector Lamp 250 W-24 V 50HRS | eBay

[Scott Walker]

Hey all. I just bought an Elmo CL16. Ive been giving it a clean. I’ve ordered new belts and lamps so let’s see how it goes. Otherwise looks good!

best


scott

[Maurice Leakey]

Scott
Check out the rubber rollers.
The rollers in my two CL16s had started to go all "gooey" and bits of black rubber were coming off and started coating the sound roller.
But now, they both have had their rollers replaced and they're now in first class condition.

[Zachary Greenberg]

Great choice Scott- The 16CL is a fine machine and, being a slot-loader, is very gentle on rare film prints!

I second Maurice's comment on checking out the rubber film rollers. If they are sticky/gooey don't fret as replacements are commonly available on eBay etc. All you need to replace them is a couple of minutes time and a screwdriver.

Elmo lenses are high quality. Usually the 16CL comes with the standard 50mm f1.2 lens. Depending on how close the projector is to the screen and how large you want the image, you may want wider-angle lenses. Elmo also made a 38mm lens, a 20mm lens, a zoom 35-65mm lens, and a 0.8-1.2x converter adapter that you screw onto the front of other lenses (turning them into zoom lenses albeit with a limited range).

I use the 20mm lens for home projection and while it is somewhat harder to find than the others, it provides a bright, crisp and large image. I'd imagine though for most contexts the 50mm or 38mm lens does the trick. If you don't project cinemascope films often the 35-65mm zoom lens is great as an all-in-one adjustable option as well!

[Maurice Leakey]

.....The 16CL is a fine machine and, being a slot-loader, is very gentle on film prints. Elmo lenses are high quality. Usually the 16CL comes with the standard 50mm f1.2 lens. Depending on how close the projector is to the screen and how large you want the image, you may want wider-angle lenses.......

Scott
Click below to see charts showing projection details with various lenses :-
throw.pdf (paulivester.com)

[Scott Walker]

Scott
Check out the rubber rollers.
The rollers in my two CL16s had started to go all "gooey" and bits of black rubber were coming off and started coating the sound roller.
But now, they both have had their rollers replaced and they're now in first class condition.

may ok let me check that thank you. I’m in the middle of still giving it a good clean but yes let me check those. Appreciate it.