Getting into 16mm from 8mm

[Scott Walker]

Hi all.

I love 8mm but really keen to try 16mm and now finally ramping up to give it. Whirl. I’m interested in getting a 16mm projector that has sound and can play reel which can deal with normal feature film purchase. Anyone have a reliable easy to use machine that’s great for this and a place to maybe purchase from?

also I love filming and would love a reasonably priced 16mm that also works somehow with sound. Any ideas on this?

many help much appreciated.

[Janice Glesser]

Hi Scott... IMO The Elmo 16CL for me has been the most reliable and easy to use 16 mm projector. This is a slot load projector that basically all you have to do is thread the film through a path... No sprockets. I have my projector connected to a soundbar and project directly to a wall about 12 ft from the lens. I use a 8 mm lens placed in a Elmo adapter to enlarge the image. Great picture quality.

The only heads up I can give you is that if the projector has not been used or serviced for a while the original rubber rollers tend to turn to black goo. But replacement rollers are available.

[Maurice Leakey]

....The Elmo 16CL is a slot load projector that basically all you have to do is thread the film through a path... No sprockets.

The Elmp 16-CL has two sprockets. One to pull the film from the feed spool, the other at the rear to pull the film through the sound system. Although, of course, the film gets put around the sprockets as you load. There is no need to physically place the film around them.
I agree with Janice. It is a great projector.

Elmo 16-CL – Spare Part Finder – Van Eck Video Services (van-eck.net)
Scroll down after clicking to see various photos of the projector.

[Mark Todd]

Hi Scott, the Elmo CL is also usually nice and quiet and to my thinking as close to an 8mm projector as any 16mm`s get, so its a good half way house in a sense, sort of too.

It also has the Elmo style and zing.

They are plentiful, and affordbale, in the US, just make sure if you go for one its the later all upgrades model and you will be a very Happy Bunny.

Best Mark.

[Scott Walker]

Amazing thank you! I’m on the lookout right now!

[Maurice Leakey]

Scott

I suggest you only buy in your own locality so that you can check it out. Unfortunately, the rubber covered rollers disintegrate over time and turn to stinky goo. Sets of replacement rollers can be purchased but unless you are very bright with technical matters you might need professional assistance.

I'll be quite frank with you. I would not recommend buying this model in view of its known problem with its rollers.

Perhaps an Eiki projector might be a better proposition. Here is an Eiki slot loader which may be expensive but seems to be a good buy.

Eiki SL-1 Super Slot-Load 16mm Movie Projector w/Converter Lens Lamp Extras | eBay

[Michael O’Regan]

Everyone will have their favourites, of course. I would tend to agree with Maurice on the Eiki models. They are plentiful and parts are available.

[Janice Glesser]

I have replaced rollers on my Elmo's (I have six ) three or four times. The new rollers are made out of a different rubber and will never need replacing. It is not difficult at all and there is a step-by-step video on YouTube. I have an Eiki also that I use for film-to-digital transfers and I agree it is a very good machine. However I have stuck with the Elmo's for my movie viewing and once brought up to working condition they are very reliable.

Depending on the model you pick up it may need a new toothed take up belt. These are also available and easy to install. Later models already have the toothed belt.

[Melvin England]

Scott - Apart from what projector to buy, there are one or two other things to consider when embracing 16mm with 8mm.

For a start, there are far far more full length features available on 16mm than 8mm. Although there are top titles available, they are few and far between. If you are happy with the not so popular titles or the old black and white B-pictures, there are many to choose from. This leads on to what can become a major problem..... storage.
One can only store a fraction of what you can on 8mm and if space is limited, you can soon fill it. The problem of weight needs to be considered. Can your floor stand the extra weight?

You also mention filming in 16mm. Much as the picture quality would be superb, the cost from purchase to viewing is massive and so would advise to stay well clear unless you have won the lottery...... in which case....build your own garden cinema and totally ignore my advice! Ha ha !

[Martin Davey]

I run a number of ELF/EIKI's and Bell & Howells. However whatever 16mm machine you get, you must check a film on a set of rewinders, and not, under any circumstances run the film without checking it beforehand, no matter how strong the urge is to run something. 16mm projectors run at a higher speed than super 8 machines, have stronger motors and are not as forgiving with faults in a film. A poor spice will cause havoc, and an ELF/EIKI in particular can do a huge amount of damage to the sprockets using its 'automatic loop restorer'. The solution as I say, make sure the print/ splices are good, clean and neat. When I have a new title in my collection I expect to redo typically half of the splices, even if they appear to look passible. Those are often ex- library films too!

[Maurice Leakey]

....A poor splice will cause havoc, and an ELF/EIKI in particular can do a huge amount of damage to the sprockets using its 'automatic loop restorer'....

Martin has made a good point.

Unfortunately, on the Elf/Eiki projectors the loop former is not in sync with the pull-down claw (as in a Bell & Howell). Therefore, it is quite possible that the loop former is trying to pull down the film to regain the lost bottom loop at the same time as the claw enters the film to pull it down. This then creates damage to the perforations of the film.

Therefore, as Martin says, always check a newly purchased film on a rewinder for any signs that might cause problems if projected. Also, never rewind a 16mm film on a projector. Always use a rewinder to give a nice taut rewind of the film.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Performance - wise Elmo seems to be on higher edge than Eiki. But in terms of serviceability Eiki would easily come up as #1 hands down.
You'll have to learn to live with its particular quirks such as underperforming loop restorer/deteriorated rubber focus wheel/etc. however.

[Steve Klare]

Scott,

I was pretty much where you are about four years ago. I got one 16mm machine and kind of started a side business. I'm keeping it primarily 8mm, but I'm glad I also added 16.

It is true that the average 16mm print has to be sharper than the average 8mm print (It's just math, really...), but there is also a substantial overlap where softer 16mm prints don't stand up against good quality 8mm. There are large-screened, good quality 8mm prints at CineSea holding their own with 16mm and even 35mm. (I can tell it's a good print when I need to look back and see where the beam is coming from to be sure.)

What I really like about it is the variety and different types of films I can buy on 16 that never appeared on 8. It broadens the variety of shows I can put on screen, and helps keep things interesting for me. I'm a fan of the National Film Board of Canada, and they are easy to find on 16mm, yet borderline non-existent on 8mm.

Storage is a potential problem for me, and it means I will never get as deep into 16mm as I am in 8: the house just isn't big enough and I have to be fair to the rest of my family! (-as it is, I have 16mm cans under at least one couch!)

The fixed focal length lenses on 16mm machines make setting up the machine kind of a challenge. My original lens was 50mm and using that meant in order to fill my screen, the machine would be almost out to the back yard (-right where my wife's recliner belongs!). I did manage to find a shorter lens and bring the 16mm machine up just behind where the the 8mm ones are. I have a second screen in another part of the house where I can't get more than about a 15 foot throw, and I have to content myself with only about 2/3 filling that screen.

Manual threading is great! (-like learning to drive a stick-shift!)

[Maurice Leakey]

....The fixed focal length lenses on 16mm machines make setting up the machine kind of a challenge....

True.
But zoom lenses are available for most 16mm projectors.

[Steve Klare]

If I found one for the Kodak Pageant, I would not be upset at all!

(-so far, no luck.)