Silent films on Super 8

[Daniel Macarone]

Hello,
I hope silent film fans can engage in this topic. I've always been a huge fan of the comics Chaplin, Keaton, and Lloyd, and bought their films on Super 8, already done plenty of research on the prints. But, it wasn't until three years ago when I finally got around to watching more than just a handful of the silent dramas/epics/horror. Wow, what a world to discover. So much talent, great stories, and I was amazed how cinematically so many of them were shot. It turns out, the camera angles we might think of as more modern weren't so scarce in the silent era. I could go on and on. I've been watching many. They're fully uploaded onto youtube, and I've bought some on blu-ray. They keep doing more restorations.

Now I'm curious how many silent dramas/epics/horror,etc. have had very nice prints released on Super 8 (and 16mm, too). I haven't come across many. If you own or have watched any, please share your knowledge. Maybe you've already written some prints reviews in another section, but I haven't been on the forum very often lately, so please lead the way. Thanks.

[Steve Klare]

Hi Daniel,

There are quite a few theatrical silent films including features on Super-8. What's perverse (-yet entirely logical) is many of them have sound!

-back in the day, people in movie theaters didn't watch silent films dead silent like it was some home movie, there was music: often an organist or band played, sometimes there were added sound effects. As a result many Super-8 silents were available as scored editions, which add this kind of audio on the soundtrack.

I have Steamboat Bill Junior feature length and scored on S8: very nice for a Buster Keaton fan like me!

[Brian Harrington]

Huge topic…

The short answer is any print released by Blackhawk will at least be very good. If other companies released the same title, the Blackhawk is usually better. I have a few Niles prints that are dupes of Blackhawks.

16mm will look better than Super 8, obviously, and Standard 8mm, but sometimes a Standard 8mm will look better than Super 8, for example from Blackhawk.

In today’s world, it is much easier to find silent classics in the 8mm gauges than in 16mm.

Regarding what’s available, it is probably easier to list what is not available —excluding of course lost films.

You would really have to let us know the titles you are interested in for a recommendation of print quality.

When you say you havent come across many, where have you looked?

If you want some nice looking prints of classics, to start out look for PHANTOM OF THE OPERA and HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME from Blackhawk.

STEAMBOAT BILL JR is an excellent choice as Steve mentioned. Also THE GENERAL, arguably Keaton’s finest. Both from Blackhawk only for best quality.

More from BH:
Chaplin Mutuals - “restored versions” look best: box will have 25xx as the last 4 digits of the catalog number. Non restored will have other numbers.
L&H silent shorts

More general rules:
Avoid Niles unless it wasnt released by BH
Waltons Chaplins are excellent, but beware many are edited. Some cut from 2 reels down to 1. Even some of the Mutuals that are nominally 2 reels are slightly edited.

Biggest risk is buying “untested” films by sellers who have no way to view the “tape.” I’ve received films with so much sprocket damage that I threw them in the trash where they belonged. Rarely an issue with sound films but people ran silent films through cheap sprocketless projectors that ate films for breakfast lunch and dinner!

Anyway, give us some titles ur seeking.

[Joseph Banfield]

The pre 1930 silent "Our Gang" shorts from Blackhawk look really nice and are just fun to watch. But more often than not, as mentioned above, the standard 8 Blackhawks often look nicer than their Super 8 counterparts.

[Joe Caruso]

Bruce, you write with such overall knowledge and intelligence, even better than myself The majority of fine drama was released through Blackhawk, including magnificent renderings of Griffith (the phenomenal Bitzer camera work), as seen in WAY DOWN EAST and ORPHANS OF THE STORM...Suggest a Glenn Photo 8mm; RESCUED FROM AN EAGLE'S NEST, which Griffith appeared as an actor (1st appearance)...Glenn was a remarkable outfit, like Griggs, which provided about the best pre-print and more often with original titles..Dan, by far, search for Blackhawk prints both scored and mute...one catalog (bulletin), and you'll be in cinematic glory...Shorty

[Steve Klare]

The General is among the nominees for Friday Night Feature at CineSea!

It will definitely be in my top three.

I absolutely prefer Blackhawk scored prints over silents, for example "You're Darn Tootin' " (There's just something wrong about a silent film about musicians!). My only gripe is they tended to recycle music among them, so there are pairs you really shouldn't project one after another.

I experimented some years ago with playing music behind silents. I found the music basically hijacked the mood of the film. This got way out of control when the second track on the DVD really set a different tone: all of a sudden you'd be watching a scene about the carnage of war and have the vocalist singing about how happy she was! I guess to really make it work would required a lot more thought than I was willing to dedicate on a Friday night after work!

[Brian Harrington]

I agree about Bruce. He really knows his stuff.

Regarding BH's music tracks: In the THEIR PURPLE MOMENT thread, I talk more about the music added for L&H silents. As Steve said, they recycled the music for several shorts.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

DEFA Heimfilm also released some classic silent movies (all unstriped):

• 222 Wo ist Coletti?
• 223 Der Student von Prag
• 228-233 Dr. Mabuse
• 245+247 Nosferatu
• 246+248 Das Cabinet des Dr. Caligari
• 507 Nosferatu
• 508 Das Cabinet des Dr. Caligari

(There might be more.)

[Brian Harrington]

Is their Nosferatu complete? I have the 3x400’ BH and it is missing the beginning scenes. BH released a few versions even shorter.

Glenn Photo is hit or miss. I have a Charley Chase from them which is a dupe of a dupe of a dupe; at least it looks that way!

[Daniel Macarone]

Hey, thanks everyone for the many great answers. All of you know your stuff. The silent comedy prints have always seemed more abundant on the web than other genres. Maybe that's only my perception. And I'm a huge fan. In fact, I've recorded a music score of Keaton's The General onto a Super 8 print of my own, taking it from a Kino DVD.

But, what I'm beginning to do my research on are the titles that are, as Shorty said, fine drama. I'm glad to know Blackhawk released some of these as well. I'm not prepared to buy, I'm just curious and I find it intriguing to discuss the quality of the prints.

Joerg, you named a few German films I haven't seen yet and I'm eager to watch them in any digital form I can find. Nosferatu and Dr. Caligari are among my favorites.

Some other silent non-comedies that amaze me the most are:
-The Docks of New York
-Asphalt
-The Scarlet Letter
-Wings
-The Man Who Laughs
-Pandora's Box
-Beggars Of Life
-Diary of a Lost Girl
-City Girl
-Sunrise
-...well, the list goes on.

Seen any releases of those?

[Brian Harrington]

I have a print of SUNRISE from Blackhawk. Very nice, but it's mute. I believe BH also released a scored version.
Take a look here for almost every BH catalog, and have fun!

https://uschefnerarchive.com/blackhawk-films-catalogs/

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BIRTH OF A NATION from BH is also excellent, if you are not offended by its content. They released several versions, the last of which was color-tinted with a beautiful score. Beware, however, that the tints have now faded, and in the battle scenes you just see a red screen and can't tell what is going on! It is on 8x400' reels instead of 6, since they stretch printed some scenes so you can play it at 24fps without the action looking too fast. The 6x400' reel version should be played slower than 24fps, exactly at what speed is up to you depending on your tastes, but 18fps works well if you don't have a continously variable speed projector.

[Juergen Kellermann]

For people who have problems with that link, the webpage with the Blackhawk catalogues can also accessed through this URL...
https://hmharchive.com/blackhawk-films-catalogs/

[Daniel Macarone]

Thanks for the links to the catalogue.

I wouldn't mind a mute print, actually. I could hear my own music in my head. But, I wouldn't show a mute print for any guests, it might bore them.

[Brian Harrington]

SUNRISE was released originally with music and sound effects, right on the film not on disc. I assume if BH released a sound version it would have been that track. I've only seen the film in my silent BH version.

At least you can get guests to watch films with you! The last time anyone watched a film with me that I was projecting was years ago when my kids were still kids!

If you have guests who are into silent films, they may not care that there is no music. The hardest part about showing completely silent films is to stop people from talking or reading the inter-title cards out loud!

I'm used to watching unscored silents. I find modern music scores distracting the few times I've seen them on a disc or TCM. Of course, there are exceptions. I enjoy the music for SHERLOCK, JR.(Keaton) by the Club Foot Orchestra, which many have panned.

I enjoy music scores from the 60s and 70s that were recorded for the silents, though. Again, many pan them, but I like the Time-Life Harold Lloyd features that BH released with those music scores by the Crescent City Jazz Band. I still need SPEEDY and GRANDMA'S BOY, but I have the rest, though some of them are mute. Yes, they're edited (some more than others), but there's no other way to get them on film other than rare bootlegs of dubious quality.

I've always enjoyed the music for the Youngson compilations, but obviously they're just clips. Same for L&H Laughtoons.

Blackhawk Bulletin #286, page 14, lists the silent films that they had scored up until that point, with info on the source of the score. SUNRISE is not listed. Maybe Bruce would know more about that.

I bought a "scored" BH print of PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, even though I already had a mute print. After 10 minutes or so, the music stopped! Yet the whole film had a magnetic stripe. Then I discovered that the music was not the BH Gaylord Carter score anyway. I found that score on youtube, but it was really hard to sync the musical cues due to speed adjustments from the Blu-ray it was taken from. I took a breather from trying, but that was already a year ago already.

It looks like after the beginning ballet sequences, it should be easy, since that is where the Blu-ray made speed adjustments, since some versions show the ballet dancers almost in slow-mo. They had released correct versions at some point. I think the Image DVD had the Carter score, and then later Kino had it. There were also alternate scores to choose from. Plus, Carter had a few years earlier composed a score for the Paul Killiam versions which is different than the one he did for BH in 1974. That Killiam score is also available on youtube as well.

I've been looking for an on-line source for the BH Carter score that was released on laser disc, since that should match the BH Super 8 version since they didn't adjust it, nor did they adjust the picture speed. Depsite all the adjustments, I heard that the Carter score is still not properly synced on the Blu-ray.

You would think that without dialog, sync wouldn't matter much, but Carter was excellent at what he did, and I could hear right away when something was off in trying to record it onto my Super 8 print.

Have you seen any William S. Hart films?

[Daniel Macarone]

Hi Brian,
No, I have not seen any of Williams S. Hart's films yet, but I plan to.

It is a great challenge for modern-day composers to write new music for the silent films. They keep writing new music every time they release another restoration on blu-ray. I bought the blu-ray of The Man Who Laughs. This was one of the later silent films that had a music soundtrack when the film was released in 1928. You can choose from this or a new score. The original music is so much better.