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buying/selling films -- accurate descriptions

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ken Finch View Post
    Considering the age of the films, a print in pristine condition would be a miracle! So much depends on how it was treated and stored by previous owners. Enthusiasts like ourselves have always been a minority. I could recount many a horror story from people I knew who used to run film libraries, 😳
    Splices and sprocket damage can be absent even from well-run prints. Scratches are another thing. I can live with some scratches, but not with sprocket damage or excessive splices. There's no subjectivity there. Count the splices. Measure the footage with sprocket damage.

    If you see library stickers on the box -- avoid.

    I've received many a film in near-mint condition.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Osi Osgood View Post
      As a general rule, most sellers are honest, just under educated regarding film.
      That is correct!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Joerg Polzfusz View Post
        Hi!

        The difference between eBay descriptions and the reality made me stop buying films online:
        There are sellers (on eBay Germany) that claim that a film is „excellent“ or „pristine“. But with this, they only mean that there aren’t many splices or perforation damages. In other words: the film can be nevertheless completely reddish and the sound might have been erased.
        Not to mention that they don’t guarantee that the film on the reel(s) is the one mentioned on the box or that there’s actually film on the reels. (On some photos you can see that the reels are only half full or that there’s a B&W print in a box labeled „color“.)


        Caveat emptor!
        They need to understand that a film is not "like new" if it is faded. They weren't faded when new.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Osi Osgood View Post
          Another damaging thing, in my opinion, is the use of "AI" technology for the description, for those sellers that are apparently too lazy to verify they're product. I would be curious to see if any studies will be done on the effectiveness or lack of effect of using AI descriptions.
          The person at eBay who green-lighted the decision to auto-gen descriptions with AI needs to have his head examined.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Brian Harrington View Post
            The person at eBay who green-lighted the decision to auto-gen descriptions with AI needs to have his head examined.
            Don’t worry. This decision was made by another AI. Welcome to the 21st century - when human will finally becomes obsolete.

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            • #36
              I have purchased from Classic Home Cinema, both in person at the shop and via mail order. I have found the prints to be as expected in every case.

              When I sell on ebay, which is mostly 16mm, I think I talk the condition down compared to many other sellers. In the last few hundred film listings over the previous few years, I think I've only had 4 prints where the buyer has not been satisfied and in each case I refunded the buyer. In two of the cases they were being unrealistic in my opinion and the other cases were my error.

              I have a Super 8 feature currently on ebay (Romancing The Stone) which has been run only 5 times and is very clean. Even then I have pointed out some imperfections that existed on the neg/pre-print materials and in the printing process. I expect ebay sellers to have run every print. It takes time, but is the only way to be sure it is complete and of the condition throughout the print.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Joerg Polzfusz View Post

                Don’t worry. This decision was made by another AI. Welcome to the 21st century - when human will finally becomes obsolete.
                But, can AI come to my house, run a film through a projector and check for quality?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by David Kilderry View Post
                  I expect ebay sellers to have run every print. It takes time, but is the only way to be sure it is complete and of the condition throughout the print.
                  That's the only way to tell condition for sure. If not, you need to sell "as-is" without returns, or allow returns.

                  To put this in persepctive, the junk prints I've received have been few and far between over the last 30 years of buying used. I've never gotten stuck with a junk print without a refund, many times without having to return it. Makes me think the seller knew it was junk and decided to roll the dice.

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                  • #39
                    Regarding Ebay film purchases it's more a case of " You pays your money and makes your choice . " It's always a risk as even good screenshots are only a rough guide as to what you may actually be buying . I buy very very little film or equipment from ebay and if and when i do it's always from someone i know i can trust from past experience . In fact that would bring the number down to around maybe two or three sellers . I have to chuckle at the hypocrisy of those who like to sling mud for whatever reason and moan about at those real bricks and mortar shops and / or mail order film dealers for example the likes of Phil at Classic Home Cinema and then have the cheek to turn up at his Open Days and grab at the freebies he kindly gives away . Be they films or equipment they don't moan complain then do they ! P.S. I do not have any shares or affiliations with any film dealer .

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                    • #40
                      Well, I actually started this thread to talk about it from the seller's viewpoint, since someone posted that they were hesitant to sell because of differences of opinion on condition. My overall point is that condition is more objective than subjective (a splice is a splice, 10 splices means 10 splices -- we can all count). So if your honest, and don't try to put lipstick on a pig, you will mostly have success selling.

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                      • #41
                        Brian - I agree.

                        Just be up front about things. If the image is pink... TELL THEM. A few screen shots would help. If it is scratched...TELL THEM. Also, of course, price the item accordingly to encourage sales. Just because it is film does not mean you have the crown jewels!
                        In this way, the buyer knows what he is letting himself in for. Therefore does not have a leg to stand on with any recourse. It may take slightly longer to make a sale but being up front takes the onus off you once the item is sold. They were the ones who made the decision to bid and buy!

                        Quick example using vinyl records....

                        I had a copy of the Beatles album "With The Beatles." The cover was torn to hell and somebody must have put a protractor diagonally across the playing area on both sides. Basically, the disc was totally unplayable and I pointed out this fact in the description, saying it cold possibly be used for display purposes but not for playing and was selling it on that understanding.

                        Sure enough..... £1 later I sold it. The buyer gave me a description rating of 5 out of 5 and remarked they were very happy. Curiously, I contacted the buyer to find out why they bought it. They said they collected these rickety records and re-shaped them into fruit bowls !

                        Normally I see this practice as sacrilege, but on this occasion it was possibly the best thing for it....... and I am £1 up !

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                        • #42
                          Has mr mander ever actually bought anything not as described and had to send it back? I have no such record

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                          • #43
                            Hello Phil i can't answer that particular question here but i can confirm that i have in the past received items by mistake not as described . However there has in my past experiences in dealing with you directly at CHC never been any problem in that matter . You always offer a refund and a kind apology for such a print slipping through the net . You always put things right and put the customers wants first . You offer a superb service and i always look forward to buying from you with confidence when finances allow . It will be a sad day for myself and many others if you ever have to shut the shop and stop trading in films and equipment as you run a great and unique business . Give my regards to Denise .

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                            • #44
                              I asked some detailed questions about a print a few days ago and the seller hasn't responded. He seems to be a seasoned seller who knows film, but I think my detailed questions must have struck a chord and perhaps the film isn't as good as he says.

                              Despite my overall past luck on the bay, I'm asking tons of questions now because "very nice" condition tells me nothing. That's what I mean about selling and being accurate -- "very nice" is open to interpretation; "no splices" is not.

                              Another thing not open to interpretation most of the time is the manufacturer of the print. I once received a "Blackhawk" print that turned out to be a Niles. The seller insisted it was Blackhawk despite the leader saying "Niles" with no splices between the leader and the opening titles, which were obviously not Blackhawk white-on-black titles but the film's original titles. Then after a few back-and-forth messages, including a pic of the leader with "Niles" clearly on it, he said it was still a nice print regardless of who manufactured it!!! Niles and Blackhawk are a night and day difference in quality. I still got my refund, though!

                              I also once received a "sound" "Blackhawk" print, in a Blackhawk box, that was neither a Blackhawk nor did it have sound! (It did have a soundstripe that was mute, though.) When I told him, he said he didn't check the sound since he only had a silent projector!

                              I have the worst luck with sellers who actually check their prints. (Hint: they often lie.) The great prints are the ones being sold by people who either inherited them or picked them up at an estate sale!
                              Last edited by Brian Harrington; October 28, 2024, 05:16 PM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Brian Harrington View Post
                                I asked some detailed questions about a print a few days ago and the seller hasn't responded. He seems to be a seasoned seller who knows film, but I think my detailed questions must have struck a chord and perhaps the film isn't as good as he says.

                                Despite my overall past luck on the bay, I'm asking tons of questions now because "very nice" condition tells me nothing. That's what I mean about selling and being accurate -- "very nice" is open to interpretation; "no splices" is not.

                                Another thing not open to interpretation most of the time is the manufacturer of the print. I once received a "Blackhawk" print that turned out to be a Niles. The seller insisted it was Blackhawk despite the leader saying "Niles" with no splices between the leader and the opening titles, which were obviously not Blackhawk white-on-black titles but the film's original titles. Then after a few back-and-forth messages, including a pic of the leader with "Niles" clearly on it, he said it was still a nice print regardless of who manufactured it!!! Niles and Blackhawk are a night and day difference in quality. I still got my refund, though!

                                I also once received a "sound" "Blackhawk" print, in a Blackhawk box, that was neither a Blackhawk nor did it have sound! (It did have a soundstripe that was mute, though.) When I told him, he said he didn't check the sound since he only had a silent projector!

                                I have the worst luck with sellers who actually check their prints. (Hint: they often lie.) The great prints are the ones being sold by people who either inherited them or picked them up at an estate sale!
                                Yep, asking lots of questions helps if their description is light on. On the weekend I asked about a print described as very good on ebay. I asked him to unwind the first few feet and take some photos so I could see the colour. It was completely faded. I then noticed he changed his description of the film and halved his asking price.

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