New guy with some questions

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

1) Don't want to start a war but what's the best, easiest, DIY way to digitize super 8 film? I see 3 ways on the internet, recording off the projection screen, wolverine, and camera up to projector lens. I don't need awesome pro results, but I need it to be good enough that my wife doesn't keep asking me why I just don't just use a modern camera. For option 3, my wife has a Nikon D3100 and an Canon EOS1 Mark II.

Just noticed that no one else had answered this question, so here I am.

All things concerned I suggest you try the simplest method first - shooting the projected picture with whatever camera you already have. Zero investment, just some small time and dedication spent to spend.

When properly done, the result will be very acceptable.

As long as that camera does have manual control (manual focus & shutter speed as bare minimum) it will be capable of this work. I even once tried with my phone in manual video mode - it did work also.

[Pearse Lambert]

Thanks Nantawat,

I have been trying the simplest method. I have been projecting the image onto a small screen over approx a 4' span. The image looks pretty good projected. It's small, but sharp.

I set up the camera, but on auto (I am a camera newbie, I've used them plenty but I let the camera make all the decisions) and the recordings aren't nearly as sharp as the projection. I also get some flicker unless I zoom out.

I'll try again on manual mode. Do you have any recommendations on image size for best recording or does it matter?

I just ordered some Ektachrome 100D so soon enough I'll be shooting with the good stuff!

[Lee Mannering]

Hi. If your super 8 camera is the Elmo 240 it will not work with kodak 100D film as the asa film speed will not be set by the camera.

In the late 1970's I used to do old fashioned film transfers thus

1 sheet of light grey a4 card taped to a wall.
Getting away from white card will help reduce any on screen hot spots.
I fitted a 12 volt 50 watt lamp in my Eumig back then to reduce light intensity. Same as you sp8.

Set your projector central to the card screen and at a distance where it fills the screen with the projector lens zoom right down. Not wide. This will give you a sharp picture using the best of the lens.

Set your video camera up against the projector lens to avoid distortion and on a tripod.

You need to transfer the film with the projector running a little slower than 18fps at just over 16fps. Remove back of projector and you can physically move the motor drive wheel down about 1mm.
This will stop any flicker.

Video camera wise you can use full auto but it's best to set exposure,white balance and focus manually.

You can effect a good quality film transfer this way.

We digitally scan film now a much.more expensive setup and process.

Enjoy

[Pearse Lambert]

Shit! I just bought 3 rolls of 100D last night! Yes the camera is the 240S-XL. I thought all theses cameras ran at 18fps?

Ok, your setup is similar to mine in terms of image size at least, and camera placement. I'll check out that motor drive trick and my bulb. Thanks, I'll give your setup a try.

[Brian Fretwell]

It will run at 18fps. It is the asa rating (light sensitivity) of the film that is the trouble, the camera will not set for100 it seems.

[Dominique De Bast]

Pearse, Lee's advise regarding the speed involves only the transfert from a projector to a video camera. From what I understand, the reason why there is flickering is that both shutters (the projector and the video camera ones) are not in synchronisation ; the projector runs at 18 fps and the video camera at 25 fps. For a film shot at 18 fps, a captation at 16,6 fps should reduce flickering to almost zero (if the film was shot at 24 fps, a captation at 25fps should be ok). That said, I'm not sure the American system is 25 fps as in Europe. I know tv systems are (or were) in the US 30 fps. Maybe someone who knows better than I will be able to clarify that.

[Pearse Lambert]

ok dominique, thanks for the explanation.

I'll be home with the kids tomorrow, so if it's sunny out then I'll try out the camera - even though it's freezing cold in Pennsylvania.

[Shane C. Collins]

Pearse you will be able to shoot the 100D with your camera but you'll have to set the aperture manually. First figure out how to disable the #85 filter from the light path. It's either a dial, a filter retracting screw, or a pin inside the film chamber. Not sure on your camera. Once you figure this out then load the camera with film. Take a meter reading (auto mode) on whatever your planning to film. The camera will want to expose the 100D as 160 ASA. That would underexpose your film. So once you have the auto-meters f stop value turn the exposure meter to manual. Open up the aperture by 1 stop. So for example if the auto-exposure meter shows an f 16 you would open the aperture to f 11. That's one full stop more light. If you saw a f 8 you would open to f 5.6. The smaller the number means the aperture is open to allow more light to hit the film. 100D needs extra light so this trick will work.
May I ask why not just project and enjoy those sharp images rather than make digital copies that are less quality. Is it to share with others that can't be there to see the projected version? Just curious is all. Part of the Super 8 allure is projection and seeing the images at their best. Call me a purist. All my new home movies are shown this way.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Thanks Nantawat,

I have been trying the simplest method. I have been projecting the image onto a small screen over approx a 4' span. The image looks pretty good projected. It's small, but sharp.

I'll try again on manual mode. Do you have any recommendations on image size for best recording or does it matter?

Hmmmm. Did you mean 4" pic size?

At 4" it would be too small to comfortably work with - might be quite difficult to set the camera into position. It would be even too close for the camera to focus.

OTOH at 4' it would be unnecessarily too large also. At that size the picture would be quite dim & need a relatively dark room to work with.

About 1 foot pic size would be a good middle ground. Have the projector lens zoomed all the way out in order to get max. possible projection throw (the distance between projector vs the screen). It will be then easier to set everything up.
You also don't need any special screen - a clean A4 paper would be more than enough. (Plain matt paper, no glossy ones please!)

Having your camera in full auto mode might get either decent/crappy result - hard to predict. You'll at least need to lock the focus and shutter speed at fixed setting no matter what. Otherwise you'll get either flicker, blurry image, or both. It might need some trial & error to get the optimum shutter speed (probably somewhere around 1/25-1/60s) in order to avoid flicker.

This should at least get you off the ground. But only practice will make perfect.

PS this is a kind of setup to be avoided. The camera and the projector should be in line as much as possible, not some 30 degrees apart like this.

[Lee Mannering]

A4 light gray off white card.

Treat yourself to a western light meter to get accurate exposure on that Elmo camera

This is the one I have used for 30+ years. Super accurate and reliable.

ebay.com 283946867659

As mentioned if you change the projector lamp to a 12volt 50 watt MR16 it will help avoid a hot spot on screen if you intent to video off screen.

Have fun.

[Pearse Lambert]

Pearse you will be able to shoot the 100D with your camera but you'll have to set the aperture manually. First figure out how to disable the #85 filter from the light path. It's either a dial, a filter retracting screw, or a pin inside the film chamber. Not sure on your camera. Once you figure this out then load the camera with film. Take a meter reading (auto mode) on whatever your planning to film. The camera will want to expose the 100D as 160 ASA. That would underexpose your film. So once you have the auto-meters f stop value turn the exposure meter to manual. Open up the aperture by 1 stop. So for example if the auto-exposure meter shows an f 16 you would open the aperture to f 11. That's one full stop more light. If you saw a f 8 you would open to f 5.6. The smaller the number means the aperture is open to allow more light to hit the film. 100D needs extra light so this trick will work.
May I ask why not just project and enjoy those sharp images rather than make digital copies that are less quality. Is it to share with others that can't be there to see the projected version? Just curious is all. Part of the Super 8 allure is projection and seeing the images at their best. Call me a purist. All my new home movies are shown this way.

Thanks Shane for the instructions on how to make the 100D work.

I will be projecting at home, I'm hoping that the kids get a kick out of seeing themselves projected. I'm pretty sure if I provide popcorn they'll like it for a while at least. But I need to digitize the original film that my sister gave me so I can share with family. Also, I have a home recording setup for music so I would like to add music to some footage.

[Pearse Lambert]

Hmmmm. Did you mean 4" pic size?

At 4" it would be too small to comfortably work with - might be quite difficult to set the camera into position. It would be even too close for the camera to focus.

OTOH at 4' it would be unnecessarily too large also. At that size the picture would be quite dim & need a relatively dark room to work with.

About 1 foot pic size would be a good middle ground. Have the projector lens zoomed all the way out in order to get max. possible projection throw (the distance between projector vs the screen). It will be then easier to set everything up.
You also don't need any special screen - a clean A4 paper would be more than enough. (Plain matt paper, no glossy ones please!)

Having your camera in full auto mode might get either decent/crappy result - hard to predict. You'll at least need to lock the focus and shutter speed at fixed setting no matter what. Otherwise you'll get either flicker, blurry image, or both. It might need some trial & error to get the optimum shutter speed (probably somewhere around 1/25-1/60s) in order to avoid flicker.

This should at least get you off the ground. But only practice will make perfect.

PS this is a kind of setup to be avoided. The camera and the projector should be in line as much as possible, not some 30 degrees apart like this.

No, I meant that the projector was roughly 4' away from the screen. I have a coffee table where one side raises up about 8" so I put the projector on that end so that I have a straight shot at the screen, without having to aim upwards at all. I had my screen on the other end of the table. My projected image was roughly the size of a sheet of paper, 8.5" x 11". So I was close to your 1' size. The picture looked nice and sharp.

I put the camera right up beside the projector lens on some books. I did have flicker and blurry image as you mentioned. I'll mess with the camera settings like you mentioned, thanks.

[Pearse Lambert]

A4 light gray off white card.

Treat yourself to a western light meter to get accurate exposure on that Elmo camera

This is the one I have used for 30+ years. Super accurate and reliable.

ebay.com 283946867659

As mentioned if you change the projector lamp to a 12volt 50 watt MR16 it will help avoid a hot spot on screen if you intent to video off screen.

Have fun.

Thanks, I'm on it!

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

No, I meant that the projector was roughly 4' away from the screen. I have a coffee table where one side raises up about 8" so I put the projector on that end so that I have a straight shot at the screen, without having to aim upwards at all. I had my screen on the other end of the table. My projected image was roughly the size of a sheet of paper, 8.5" x 11". So I was close to your 1' size. The picture looked nice and sharp.

I put the camera right up beside the projector lens on some books. I did have flicker and blurry image as you mentioned. I'll mess with the camera settings like you mentioned, thanks.

Oh I see that, my goof actually.
I'm sure as hell that you're in the right direction. The rest is just the camera setup. And as previously mentioned - full manual is the way to go.
The recommended settings should be...
- Manual focus, always
- Shutter speed around 1/50 to 1/60s. This depends on projector's speed as well.
- White balance at Tungsten/indoor settings. But the best is one-push manual setting: set it with the projector running but no film in the gate.
- If your camera/camcorder does have 24fps frame rate option - choose it. The next best thing would be 30p mode. Even 60p mode would work nicely if you can set the projector's speed at 20fps. The idea is that the projector's speed should be the multiples of the camera's frame rate.

The rest is practice. You'll be amazed how great the outcome could be.

[Pearse Lambert]

I got some time to play around with the projector/camera recording system. I was able to determine that the camera is recording in 1080 at 24fps so that's good. I was able to change to manual focus, but I didn't see any access to the shutter speed and white balance settings in film mode.

I picked up some 50W bulbs and had to modify the receiving plug slightly so they would fit properly. It looked ok on the screen, but it's so much darker than the 100W bulb that was in there that the recorded image comes out too dark. I'm going to order some more 100w bulbs as mine didn't survive the swap.

I've shot most of the first roll of film, I'll finish it up tomorrow.

Then I guess I'll be looking to modify the camera so I can run the 100D film through it.