Fraternally Yours edited?

[Osi Osgood]

Hey everyone! I know that often Walton editions of films, cartoons or features, tended to be slightly edited, but not always. Therefore, was the Walton edition of the Laurel and Hardy feature, "Fraternally Yours" (Sons of the Desert) edited and, if so, what is missing?

[Mike Newell]

One of the least edited Walton features. They tended to cut the more adult scenes for some reason. The smoking scene at the convention and Ollie blackmailing Stan that he would tell his wife he smoked if he didn’t stick to their story back at the house The girls dancing at the convention might also be slightly edited.Cant think of anything else that is missing.

[Osi Osgood]

Thanks 4 that info! A question for anybody who has owned both. Which has the better image quality? Blackhawk or Walton? I have only owned the Blackhawk. I know that the Blackhawk has good contrast but a marginal focus. How is the Walton in comparison? Also, the Walton, being from international release prints, does it have footage that is not in the Blackhawk release?

[Joe Caruso]

No, Walton used different camera angles, as you might notice in Big Business when Fin looks straight into the camera...one dialogue bit was often cut, that being Charlie Chase on the phone with Mae Busch..." you little organ pumper you!"...that eas excised for years until reinstated for the L&H show, which aired on AMC, no I would say Walton's neg was fairly clear, but partial to Blackhawk always...besides, they had better boxes! Fraternally, Shorty

[Mike Newell]

Had the Blackhawk and whilst complete was grainy. I only had Derann reprint of Fraternally Yours and print was an improvement on Blackhawk but opening sequence were they give their vow to attend convention has issues over exposure and soft. Once in the taxi home the print improves dramatically to the end. Walton prints never seem to appear much on second hand lists compared to other L&H features. Whether that’s because collectors never sell or supply of prints out in the universe.

Joe you made me laugh at “organ pumper” how did they get lines like that pass the censor?

I would imagine Pardon Us or aka Jailbirds is on the forever banned list on television now with the pickin cotton and “Shine on Harvest Moon” sequences. Who knows maybe they will do double Bill with The Jolson Story 😜

[Osi Osgood]

Pardon Us has tended to be an underated feature, but I have always felt it to be funnier than some of later highly rated features. I started this post as I lucked out on finding a Walton print of this, though I would dare say that the Derann print would be the "Holy Grail" of this feature, which is kind of funny as well, as, didn't Derann use Walton's negative for they're release?

[Brian Fretwell]

Joe you made me laugh at “organ pumper” how did they get lines like that pass the censor?

Watch Carry on Dick for a real organ pumper (in the church) perhaps the censor was thinking of one of those!!!!

[Mike Newell]

Sure the entire Carry on movie was innuendo from start to finish. British censors were more liberal than the Americans. If you search out a pre code film from US the dialogue and content is unbelievable. After Hays Code everything was restricted until 1960s.

[Mike Newell]

Osi

Pardon us was one of the best polyester prints produced. Mr Todd will concur as I bought his print from him only to sell back to him later when I downsized.

A few negatives from Walton were used by Derann but their source of negatives for polyester prints came from a different source. They can be identified by having a British Censor Certificate in front of the main titles see example below plus they will be on polyester. Most of these were superior to original Walton releases plus they didn’t have tacky Walton logo included.

They are out there particularly in UK. Follow Mark he seems to find them all the time.

[Frank Commins]

This is such an interesting topic, that I pulled out my "Jailbirds" and "Pardon Us" prints for a comparison.

I'm assuming "Jailbirds" is a Walton print. Both this and the Blackhawk print of "Pardon Us" contain the original 'End' title, but after that the "Jailbirds" print follows up with the Walton logo.

However, "Jailbirds" does start off with the original British Censor Certificate, before the original opening ("Distributed in the U.K. By Ealing Studios") titles. Of course, the Blackhawk "Pardon Us", like most of the L & H releases, has their own custom introductory titles.

I did notice an edit in the "Jailbirds" print. During the Jimmy Finlayson prison schoolroom episode, Stan responds to Fin's question regarding how many times 3 goes into 9. He confidently answers "3, with two left over". In the Blackhawk print, Fin demands to know why Ollie is smirking at Stan's answer, to which he responds, "There only one leftover." Ollie's response is missing from the "Jailbirds" version. It's possible there could be more omissions in the "Jailbirds" version, but I wasn't astute enough to catch them.

Print wise, I prefer "Jailbirds". The contrast is head and shoulders above Blackhawk's "Pardon Us". In addition, "Jailbirds" has almost a light blue tint, which further enhances the detail. (Is the blue tint indicative of a polyester print?) Blackhawk's print has additional grain, and more grays than blacks. The "Jailbirds" version has (slightly) better sound overall. Also, and this might be a defect in my print, the Blackhawk "Pardon Us" sound is slightly out of sync for the first half of the film.

All the best.
Frank

[Brian Fretwell]

I would think a blue tint would be a result of printing on colour stock, which may or may not be polyester. Agfa/Gaevert used the same 1S etc on both colour and B&W stock on acetate or polyester bases so that might not be any indication. Studio labs often used Agfa for Walton prints.

[Mike Newell]

Hi Frank Warm Welcome to the forum 👏👏👏. Yes, blue tint is from using colour stock to produce black and white prints. This is for polyester prints. The only polyester Laurel and Hardy print I know that was produced on black and white stock is the super excellent full length Beau Hunks which was sold by CEC which our esteemed Barry Atwood was involved with. It is a cracker of a print much better than the Walton which was 400 I think. There was a spoiler condensed release of 600ft by Derann at same time but haven’t seen it to comment and there wouldn’t be too many around.

[Osi Osgood]

Pardon Us, on either DVD or Blu-ray, had a whole sequence added back in where our lads save the wardens daughter from a naughty inmate during a fire in that last whole riot sequence. The audio was lost for the sequence, so replacement music and audio was added. Not really very funny, but interesting, none the less.

[Mike Newell]

The extra scenes for Pardon Us didnt really add much to the film Osi. You need to remember it started off in concept as another short then they expanded story as they could use sets from MGM prison film for free and Hal Roach could get bigger rentals from a feature.

They also added an extra reel to Laughing Gravy so it didn’t end with Charlie Hall killing himself but Stan got a letter from a relative stating he would get a fortune if he made a split from Ollie who goes off in a huff leaving tearful Stan running after him saying he couldn’t leave Ollie so disowns the fortune.

An attempt by Roach to get rid of a typical black humour ending that Stan loved. The original ending although a bit brutal is much better.

[Osi Osgood]

Hey, I have looked all through my book, " the films of Laurel and Hardy" and couldn't find it. Wasn't there a scene in one of they're films where there's a fellow in a tub, the tub falls thru a floor and breaks to pieces, leaving a bare buck naked fellow to stare at the camera in disbelief.