Re-recording sound on features

[Philip Hamilton]

I re-record my features directly with my BEAULIEU 708 or ELMO GS 800.
Thanks to the speed adjustment from 16-25 frames a second You can re-record any film perfectly while it runs and You can balance the little differences between a DVD/BluRay (some frames can be missing at reel changes or the DVD/BluRay misses some seconds here and there) without stopping the projection.
The BEAULIEU is much more precisely and the results are breathtaking: the Stereo Sound is clear and booming.

Oliver - what is your setup ? What do you plug into your Projector? Do you edit the movie soundtrack first to match the film? Do you plug your PC or Bluray player directly into the projector? Would appreciate an explanation of your work flow on this. Thanks!

[Stuart Hilliker]

Hi Philip,

In answer to your questions:

Pro Tools is the standard software for Film & TV post as well as being widely used for music recording and mixing. No problem running picture.

The 24Hz pulse is created using the signal generator in Pro Tools. I create a 60 minute file and trim to required length. I can send you a 24 & 25 Hz pulse if that’s useful.

The pink noise is again created using the signal generator. The advantage of this is that it is a broad frequency signal and easy to set and compare levels. Definitely not essential.

In theory the pulse level could be set within Pro Tools. With my interface I was unable to achieve enough level. It really does need high volume!

[Philip Hamilton]

Stuart - thanks! So hardware - wise what you do have between your computer and projector? And, you said "Any software that can support video playback and an audio interface with a minimum of three output channels should work just as well." I have Sony Vegas and can have multiple tracks but I don't know if that is what you mean by 'channels'.

What is the process or connection to get the 'pulse' to the projector? This is the part that is not clear to me. You mention 'my interface' - any details on that would be appreciated. thanks again

[Stuart Hilliker]

The reason for three outputs is to feed the left & right audio to the GS whilst allowing the pulse signal to have its own output. In order to connect this to the GS, I made a cable that has an ESS plug (5 pin din) to a 1/4inch jack. I believe the pin arrangement for this is explained on the old forum archive.

As my Pro Tools is part of a studio, the set up is far more complicated than it needs to be for the GS re-records.

I would think that one of the Focusrite audio interfaces would work brilliantly for this.
Output 1 to GS input Left
Output 2 to GS input Right
Output 3 to ESS (possibly via a small mixer or similar to increase gain). Do not connect this output to a speaker!

[Oliver Feld]

Philip, I plug the cable directly into the projector.
I put the machine in front of my TV set and a paper „as a screen“ before it. Then I adjust the right speed by starting the film and the BluRay until they go in sync.
I always start the recording on Super-8-reel 2, to assure that the main title music on reel 1 later is not to be adjusted. You would hear the differences.
If You start the recording You have the absolute control because You see film-and-BluRay on the same time running in Sync or not.

[Philip Hamilton]

Philip, I plug the cable directly into the projector.
I put the machine in front of my TV set and a paper „as a screen“ before it. Then I adjust the right speed by starting the film and the BluRay until they go in sync.
I always start the recording on Super-8-reel 2, to assure that the main title music on reel 1 later is not to be adjusted. You would hear the differences.
If You start the recording You have the absolute control because You see film-and-BluRay on the same time running in Sync or not.

Thanks Oliver! So the cable you connect is plugged directly into the R and L Line inputs on your projector correct? Thanks for the pic showing how you project the film onto the image of the bluray player. I guess the key here is having a VARIABLE speed projector so you can get it just right.

[Philip Hamilton]

[Philip Hamilton]

The reason for three outputs is to feed the left & right audio to the GS whilst allowing the pulse signal to have its own output. In order to connect this to the GS, I made a cable that has an ESS plug (5 pin din) to a 1/4inch jack. I believe the pin arrangement for this is explained on the old forum archive.

As my Pro Tools is part of a studio, the set up is far more complicated than it needs to be for the GS re-records.

I would think that one of the Focusrite audio interfaces would work brilliantly for this.
Output 1 to GS input Left
Output 2 to GS input Right
Output 3 to ESS (possibly via a small mixer or similar to increase gain). Do not connect this output to a speaker!

Hi Stuart - So as I have read almost everything I can find about this - it seem that I would need to do the following :
1) Create the EDIT in Sony Vegas (or similar editor) on my PC
2) The resulting edit will have a Video and Audio track.
3) Add an additional audio track
4) Import a 24hz (24fps) pulse track to the ESS input
5) Here's where it gets tricky - I would need another sound card (2) so that I can have a separate output for the pulse??
6) Connect sound card 1 with film audio directly to the projector Line in L % R or single jack with L having MONO
7) Connect sound card 2 with 1/8 auto jack to ESS input on projector
8) When you press play on the PC the pulse starts the projector as the edited move plays and send the audio to record.

Also - as i understand it - you eliminate the the extra sound card if you only want to record MONO by putting the pulse on the left channel and the audio on the right channel. Plug in a splitter to the sound card that gives you a L & R outputs. Plug the R line into the projector to feed the MONO soundtrack. Plug the L into the ESS plug - proper pins - to provide the pulse.

Does this sound correct? Is a mixer required? Where does one get a plug that is setup correctly for the ESS 6 DIN input? Seems like most of you guys are making the plug. Are there directions on hoot do so anywhere?

Thanks again for all of your feedback.

[Paul Browning]

Good clear write up Stuart and informative, with your software and as you film the super 8 to video, does the software alert you to frames of one or the other in a miss match?, or are you looking at this frame by frame, side by side to check the match is correct, if that is the case this must take some time in real time to do, i guess you get better at it has time goes on.............

[Philip Hamilton]

Good clear write up Stuart and informative, with your software and as you film the super 8 to video, does the software alert you to frames of one or the other in a miss match?, or are you looking at this frame by frame, side by side to check the match is correct, if that is the case this must take some time in real time to do, i guess you get better at it has time goes on.............

Paul - As I understand it, Oliver is actually using the variable control speed on the projector to TWEAK it into synchronization - see post pic above.

Stuart on the other hand is using the 'pulse sync' method which automatically sends a signal to the projector to project at a specific speed - e.g. 24fps AND sync'd with the playback of the PC. In his case the PC controls the entire sync. In Oliver's case it's just being eyeballed to sync up.

[Chip Gelmini]

And now this is way too complicated for me I know there are people I can pay to do this for me so that will probably be my direction I follow having said this the answers here have been most interesting I am older now 25 years ago I probably could've mastered it right away but now it's too complex for me

[Stuart Hilliker]

Hi Philip,
Yes, you are correct. If only mono is required then two outputs would suffice. If your budget will stretch to it a four output audio interface would be the most elegant and flexible solution.
Using this system you can guarantee sync +/- one frame.
By shooting a rough video of the print you can solve any missing frame problems without having to subject the print to excessive rewinds and replays.
Once you have an audio track that matches your print you can hit record safe in the knowledge that it will be a single record pass.

I use the rough audio to compare and phase to the full range track. There’s nothing automatic about it but it is at least reliable.
Working out the correct frame rate and pitch of the DVD/Bluray source can be a challenge.
It very quickly becomes apparent if different versions of the film have been released!

[Philip Hamilton]

Hi Philip,
Yes, you are correct. If only mono is required then two outputs would suffice. If your budget will stretch to it a four output audio interface would be the most elegant and flexible solution.
Using this system you can guarantee sync +/- one frame.
By shooting a rough video of the print you can solve any missing frame problems without having to subject the print to excessive rewinds and replays.
Once you have an audio track that matches your print you can hit record safe in the knowledge that it will be a single record pass.

I use the rough audio to compare and phase to the full range track. There’s nothing automatic about it but it is at least reliable.
Working out the correct frame rate and pitch of the DVD/Bluray source can be a challenge.
It very quickly becomes apparent if different versions of the film have been released!

Thanks so much. By getting a four port audio output interface - would that hook directly between the sound output on the PC and the ESS and AuxR&L inputs on the projector? Would this somehow allow me to need only one sound card with a stereo out and if so how do I pass the 'pulse sync' as well. Sorry I may not be understanding how the audio interface works/helps.

[Stuart Hilliker]

There are various audio interfaces available and, often dependent on budget, varying number of outputs. Commonly using a standard USB from the computer stereo, 4, 8, 16 or 24 physical outputs are standard.

This is one option. Not the cheapest but definitely a reputable company….

Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen USB Audio Interface https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07QSC92...P5Z36G5KXRH3QF

[Philip Hamilton]

There are various audio interfaces available and, often dependent on budget, varying number of outputs. Commonly using a standard USB from the computer stereo, 4, 8, 16 or 24 physical outputs are standard.

This is one option. Not the cheapest but definitely a reputable company….

Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen USB Audio Interface https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07QSC92...P5Z36G5KXRH3QF

I gather the audio interface - once installed onto your Windows PC acts like a multi output sound card? Select in Preferences within the editing software and I am guessing that I could then assign audio tracks up to 4 outputs on the device you selected? Then the outputs can be connected directly to the projector ESS and Line in R&L? Is that correct? thanks