Automatic threading not working on Bauer T240 (Sound)

[Peter Plumbohm]

Hi,

this is my first post to this forum and while I have tried to read up on the forum policies and etiquette, I apologise in advance in case my post is violating any rules inadvertently.
I'm also new to projectors of any type, so I'm still trying to learn he correct name for the various parts.

I have inherited a Bauer T-240 Sound projector from my late Father and am trying to get it back to working condition.
The projector was working initially (including the automatic threading), but only sporadically. The drive belt seemed quite worn and assuming that this was the root cause for the issues I encountered, I replaced this with the appropriate spare part.
However, now I have a new problem and this is that the automatic threading of film no longer works. When inserting film, it feels as if the film is blocked by an obstacle and can't progress any further.

From what I can make out, the film appears to be blocked by the two pins (see picture) that are meant to thread into the holes on the side of the film and transport it. These pins are only moving in and up and down motions and are never moving out of the way of the film (I'm probably not describing this very well, I hope it makes some sense).

I have uploaded some short clips of the issue to YT in the hope that this might further illustrate the issue.

1. Trying to thread some film : https://youtu.be/SM2NaBi3XRQ
2. Some slow-mo of the threading pins (?) in operation : https://youtu.be/T9ykBr1afL0

It seems pretty clear to me that I have broken something when changing the belt, but for the life of me I can't figure out what it is. Any pointers to further troubleshooting approaches would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much in advance,
Peter

[Stuart Budd]

Hello. I really hope you manage to fix your Dads old printer.
The feed looks like a Silma projector. Which is like Agfa LS2 and other Bauers.
I don't want to point you in the wrong way as I've left an LS2 in need of fixing myself.
However, and not sure if this is fact. But grease may have hardened preventing free movement.
I think there should be a screw on plate where you feed the film and below the gate and before the audio there is a roller and film guide. The film can't get past the gate as you mention but those parts should move freely and spring back. Linked to the lever on the right. If they don't (as in my case) either the grease as hardened (maybe) or In my case the alternative is impact crush of parts.
If I think of anything else I post.
Happy fixing.

https://youtu.be/p2Vbk_fNGp0

[Arnau Pell]

hi Peter, welcome to the forum!
I have had two bauer, a t192 and a t502.
With the t192 I think I remember that I had similar problems and, in my case, both bauer "don't like" that the tip of the film has a u-shaped curve. I would try at 18fps and try to "flatten" the tip of the film to be flat to see if it improves

[Stuart Budd]

I'm beginning to think that the gate lining is missing.

https://van-eck.net/en/product/bauer...nt_repair_kit/

Again, not sure on this but think the film should load into a plastic guide...

[Maurice Leakey]

I'm beginning to think that the gate lining is missing. Again, not sure on this but think the film should load into a plastic guide...

Yes, that it correct, There is a tall removable front gate. This seems to be missing.
Here are pictures of a brother projector, the model T23 which clearly shows the light grey front gate on one of the pictures.
Click and scroll down to the pictures and select the one to which I refer.

Bauer T23 – Spare Part Finder – Van Eck Video Services (van-eck.net)

[Peter Plumbohm]

Hi all,

firstly, thank you very much for all the great advice. I will try to follow up on each of the suggestions made and will provide updates on any progress I manage to make.

In regards to the "gate lining" or "front gate" that Stuart and Maurice were commenting on, I believe this is the part (see picture) that I had removed in order to better show the "claws".
I should have pointed this out in the post or video and am sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

What would help me at this point would be to understand how the "claws", that feed the film into the projector, are meant to move exactly. Maybe this would provide me with some idea where the movement is currently restricted.

I have also uploaded another video (https://youtu.be/1rU2bAqEpDc) , hopefully further clarifying the issue. My skills as a videographer clearly still need a lot of work, with lesson 1 being "Stop breathing into the microphone you muppet" :-)

Thanks again for the assistance.
Peter

[Maurice Leakey]

Peter
You are quite correct with the workings of the claws, but obviously, they are not working as they should. They operate from a cam which gives the in/out, up/down, movement to the claws.
Is there anything obstructing the claws' movement?

[Stuart Budd]

Nice video

Van Eck have a video too:

https://youtu.be/8cwFnltBYZ8

They make it look simple! They're doing the cam follower, might be a clue to why the claw is moving but not in and out.

Van Eck have a few films that may help.

May need to search for different models.

Silma not sure on models
Agfa LS
Agfa LS2
Bauer T400 T500 T600

Fingers crossed.

[Peter Plumbohm]

Thanks again for your very valuable feedback. Especially the videos from Van Eck are very helpful. It's funny how straightforward things are, once you know how they work :-)

The issue is resolved and while I would really like to give a detailed account on how I fixed, it seems that I rectified the issue with the same blissful ignorance that caused it in the first place.
I retraced my steps (from changing the belt) and removed the motor. I then remembered that I had also removed the rear end of the camshaft in order to get the new belt in. The front portion (holding the shutter discs) has quite a few springs attached and I wasn't keen on removing (and later re-attaching) these.
When I removed (or rather loosened) the camshaft again, I noticed that the claws had retracted. Engaging the mechanism manually then showed that the movement of the claws was as I expected them to be and this has also survived the reassembly of the projector.

So I assume that when I changed the belt, the cam follower must have slipped off it's proper position on the shaft, limiting it's movement to the vertical. At least this is my best guess at this point.

Everything appears to be working fine so far, so I can enter the new year with one task less on my list :-)

Thanks again for all the tips and insights, they were extremely helpful.

Have a happy new year,
Peter

[Maurice Leakey]

Good news, perseverance counts.