New Year Resolution Fail....

[Stuart Budd]

Unfortunately I've accidently broken my new years resolution and bought another projector.

It's for medical research, so a good reason.

I'm thinking of doing a video just on gates and sprockets for Eumig projectors of the 700 and 800 variety but as you may know the 700 series is fragmented and the 800 series is too. For example the 710, 711 and 712 are very different. How different I can't say as I don't know. Visually from an external view point, different. Internally, don't know. The 800 series too. Different. So far all I've noted is the 810. Different to the 822, 824 and 804. Not sure on the 820. I think there's an 820!

But yes, a video on gates and sprockets. It's just that as a recent new comer I know how easy it is to fall into a hole of misunderstanding and as a new comer I know I still have a lot to learn. So I'd like to make a complete and informative video relating to gates and sprockets without missing the relevant points.

Terminology is important and I think, "Gauge" is the term used for the 8mm film varieties and there are only two. Regular and Super. But Super is almost a brand name used by Kodak and supported by others. Single is Fujica or Fuji. Exactly the same Gauge as Super (Frame and Sprocket) but sold as an unexposed film for cine cameras manufactured by Fujica or Fuji in a cartridge shaped specifically for Fuji Cameras.

There's never really been a naming convention for the brands that's easy to understand and almost deliberately made confusing. Standard 8 (S8) Super 8 (S8) Single 8 (S8). Ricoh TrioScope. Eumig Standard 8 Super 8 Single 8.

So the plan is to get a video up on gates but explain the the two formats relating to perf pitch and frame size as well as audio offset but not make it complicated. I'd have to add silent and tracks explanations too. I'd also like to mention other projector brands that share the goal of projecting 8mm film, be it "Regular 8 (Double 8, Standard 8)"or the "Super 8 Gauge (Single 8)", silent and/or sound.

Anyway, it's the 711 I've broken my resolution to and it looks like a 712 is some thing I'm on the hunt for.

Just a point of curiosity, there are no 700 valve amp models are there?

[Lee Mannering]

I'm getting worried about you Stu
I have 6 700 series models..... Now I'm worried about myself!
Remember from oh 13 years ago sending a manual to a guy on here saying beware on exposed electricals inside the back. Hope he is ok not seen since.

The grey models were ok but not a patch on the later 800 range. They improved the gate aperture design.

[Martin Davey]

I think that 8mm has different terrms around the world. As well as regular 8 there is normal 8 and, I think mainly used in the UK, Standard 8. I've always refered to it as that and I seem to remember the old movie magazines called it Standard 8mm.

[David Roberts]

Stuart,
Both 701 and 709 had valve amps,same as the earlier models.
The 712 was the first transitor amp model.

[Nick Regan]

I have a 712 somewhere Stuart

[Osi Osgood]

Sheesh, and I thought I was being excessive having three projectors, but they are all in working order.

[Joseph Banfield]

Although not marked as being from the 700 series, the Eumig Mark S standard 8mm is the very first in the 700 series. The Eumig Mark S super 8 projector that came shortly thereafter is nothing more than the standard 8mm machine refitted with a slightly different front casting, Super 8 sprockets, gates, different sound head and super 8 spindles.

And since you mentioned gates specifically, The Eumig Mark S (8mm), the Eumig Mark S (super 8) and the Eumig Mark S 701 all have non-removeable rear gates. Fully removeable gates appear for the first time on the Eumig Mark 709 and stayed that way even on dedicated machines until the end. Note that with the three machines I mentioned it was impossible to break off a claw pin accidently because of the rear gate being non-removeable.

Also, the earlier Mark S standard 8mm machine used two very different gate designs during its run. The Mark S 8mm and the Mark S super 8 and the early versions of the Mark S 701 do not have inching knobs since there was no reason for it with their permanently installed rear gates. Even with the later addition of an inching knob on the 701 it still had a permanently installed rear gate.

The entire early run of Eumig sound machines used the exact same tube amplifier using the same three vacuum tubes with little tweaks and additions here and there to suit whichever of the four models it was installed in. Tube amps are installed on the Eumig Mark S (8mm), the Eumig Mark S (Super 8), the Eumig Mark S 701 and the Eumig Mark S 709. As far as I know all other Eumigs had transistorized amps.

personally I prefer the vacuum tube amps because they produce no hum at all and don't need hum bucking coils like the notorious hummy transistorized amps that followed. A real problem for some people would be the weight of those machines using a tube amp because they are very heavy beasts indeed!

[Arnau Pell]

I grew up with a eumig 807 !! In case someone may be interested, I leave you this link

https://eumig.at/index.php?option=co...=98&Itemid=200

[Stuart Budd]

Thanks one and all for the helpful information. It's quite a deep subject at it's heart. The link in Arnau post I've used for the P8. Didn't think to look at the 7 and 8 hundreds. Nice bit of history from Joseph. The inch winders use appears to be linked directly to the removable gate and claw safety position and not really of any other use. Like these bits of info.

Yes Lee, electricity does tingle. It's a bit like having a Pot Noodle and thinking, "it'll be alright, I won't get any on my chin" yet you end up covered in the stuff.

I think I'll stick to the gates and sprockets in the video.

[Lee Mannering]

Me 2 Arnau. Eumig (pronounced Oimig) 807D 1972 still works perfectly and in its box a little treasure of my childhood.

[Joseph Banfield]

And I also forgot to mention that all the tube (valve) amplifier Eumig versions used the 12v 100 watt FCR lamps with two condensor lens ahead of the projection lens and a reflector behind the lamp, not to mention front to back and side to side levers to adjust the lamp for perfect, bright light focusing. They all also used threaded lens barrels for accurate and precise focus that did not drift. Another interesting feature of the tube amp models is that when the sound amplifier is switched off the pinch roller and sound head pressure pads move down and out of the way and the film path remains completely open like in a silent projector...none of the transitorized amps can do this.

But the best kept secret of all with those sound tube amp models is that you can add an extra frame or two to the bottom loop and completely eliminate film chatter in the sound on Super 8 films!!! But I've made that point countless times over the years.

[Shane C. Collins]

I know this thread is about the Eumig sound projectors. But, I wanted to add my Eumig Mark M Super 8 silent machine is a dream when it comes to focusing. Joseph is right, the focusing on these is spot on with no drift. I even think the focusing is more accurate than my Bolex 18-5, that also uses a threaded lens. I was pleasantly surprised the first time I used the Eumig. The 810D I had years back was not the best for focusing, in fact I don't really like any projector that doesn't use the threaded lens barrel. I wonder why Eumig, and other manufactures decided to eliminate this far superior feature? I assume it was for cost cutting! I am also quite surprised how bright the 100 watt FCR bulb is, along with it's use of the condenser lens, and reflector. Well anyways I am a new fan of these early Eumig machines.

[Joseph Banfield]

Shane, I believe most manufactures switched over to the sloppy knob type focusing system as opposed to the tried and true screw type. I suppose the reason was to keep all controls on the front panel, but who knows.

Eumig got it right the first time on the early 700 series sound machines that used vacuum tubes.

By the time of the 800 series so many features had been eliminated like built in automatic threading lamps that serve two functions. Besides their obvious function, the threading lamps also act as an instant indicator of a blown projection lamp at startup..no illumination of the threading lamps equals an open filament projection lamp. Also the film can be easily unthreaded from the machine at any point during projection...on later models you're committed to running the entire film or reversing it to release the film from the film path.

And the heavy, all metal, screw type lenses are superb, instead of the later cheaply built plastic lenses that used the sloppy knob type focusing.

What I did forget to mention was that all the Eumig vacuum tube models used a two way external speaker connector that when the plug is inserted in one direction cuts off the speaker in the projector as you would normally expect. But when that same plug is turned 180° around in the socket it allows both the internal speaker and the external speaker to play at the same time...feature removed on transitorized models because of the real risk of blowing the output transistors.

It's funny though when you stop and look around and read about how guitar players always want those vintage vacuum tube amps, as well as audio people who insist on high end vacuum tube stereo amps. But in the film community there seems to be very little love for machines with vacuum tube amps.

[Stuart Budd]

No worries on sound silent. Really a gate sprocket thread with a touch of valve and... Projector thread

Looks like a 701. Valve and sticky back gate with no inch knob. Just as a progressive example. It's a smiler too and a 66 model to keep the same birthyear as me.

And that's the last projector ever ever 😇

This is a good read and I'll incorporate some info in the video but mainly link to where the real knowledge is .

Cheers and keep it comming if you have it.

[Joseph Banfield]

Oh come on Stuart, you know that won't be your last projector! Who are you kidding...there's always room for just one more!