KICKSTARTER for new Super 8mm Sound print digests?

[Chip Gelmini]

I stand firm on my comment regarding non verbal art films. I know those titles have been discussed here in other topic threads before. So I believe that I am not the only one who would enjoy them on super eight.

[Philip Hamilton]

I just popped back in. Good comments from all. Yes to do any new Super 8mm release the only viable method is to source from digital files thus keeping the cost down and also to provide the best and cleanest result on a Super 8 print. Finding actual film is a non-starter and it won't be clean enough likely to produce optimal results.

Going for the 200' is actually the easiest - although editing that is a bit tougher to get some representation of a beginning - middle - and end. Doable for sure but easier with 400' or 600'.

For example it has been suggested to produce a 600' A L I E N. This version would have the correct ending that would somewhat match what happens in the movie! And if I were editing it - it would include Ripley in underwear. It would just have to be there. Sorry.

I will never forget when I got the 200' COLOR ALIEN form Ken Films. It came with a cassette soundtrack. But then it ends after the ALIEN hatches - WHAT?? - no full size ALIEN??? I could produce a better 200' edit than that. What Ken Films did was just plain lazy in my opinion.

So yeah - you could do a more decent digest of ALIEN on 200' - but who would buy it? It's already been out in that form although it pretty much sucked. That is why doing the 600' version of A L I E N is more interesting and yes it would cost more for sure but would be pretty amazing I think.

This the the challenge though for sure and I appreciate everyone's comments. Keep 'em coming!

[Adrian Winchester]

I wouldn't argue against a 600' of 'Alien' but I'd imagine that the already small market could be further reduced by those who already have versions. I wouldn't consider it as I have the feature and some of those who have the 400' - and I believe there might be some low fade prints in circulation - might be reasonably happy with it. I know the end is missing, but when I had the 400', I felt that if you didn't know there was more, it actually made a good cut down!

Ed's suggestion of 'Precious Images' looks a good choice, but unfortunately many of us will already have Derann's release of this, which I believe sold well. You rarely see the title mentioned because they called it 'Reflections USA', because it's in the same style as the UK equivalent 'Reflections', which they had already released.

Particularly when it comes to trailers, I think 35mm could potentially still provide some good source material. I'd hope that quite a few of us 'The Wicker Man' fans would love to have a full theatrical trailer.

[Stuart Reid]

For repeatability, the look and feel, the seasonal element that I think Super 8 is made for: A cutdown of The Nightmare Before Christmas. It would make an incredible 600 footer.

[Steve Klare]

The biggest problem here is finding a title that enough people agree on. Not everybody is really into horror, or sci-fi, or animation, or musicals, or basically anything (railroad films, anyone?), but the one thing that we all share in common is we love film. What would go over well is what I call "film about film", anything about film production, or collecting, or film history. Lee Mannering's Cinema in Miniature is an excellent example.

I saw a US Air Force film about setting up a 16mm film show once: it was so painfully serious it was borderline funny! ("I AM serious, and don't call me Shirley!")

[Chip Gelmini]

How about Lord of the Rings?

Combine all 3 parts for a 90 minute extract. Scope, stereo.

[Lee Mannering]

Alien.
As it happens you will be seeing a special edition of a ken style edit but extended a extra 5 minutes in 2023, something that has been underway for a few months now along with others. Phil that sequence may or may not be one of the extended sequences :-)
Either way it seems to have been a very popular 17 minutes by Ken over the decades and due the extra 5 minutes or so.

My own film Cinema in Miniature will also be getting a re release as a numbered limited edition and photo card collection.

For those who don't know the production costs involved of new prints lets just say its astronomical. You will need very deep pockets, much patience and be prepared to take a great deal of risk. UK wise we also have the dreaded import duty and heavy shipping costs.
Its a fairly long process over a number of months perhaps as long as 6 but if your enthusiasm is strong enough, you are committed to making the magic happen and happen to have around 3K to make a negative that will do for a start.

[Ed Gordon]

Kickstarter campaigns can succeed. Here is an example of one started by an individual who wanted a quality copy of an old silent movie. He did a lot of work upfront, and determined that if $3500 could be raised via Kickstarter, a high quality digital copy of the old movie could be produced. The campaign ran for about a week and he raised more than double the initial goal.

The Project


Hello again, everyone! After months of preparation, I am finally ready to embark on my third Kickstarter project. Our subject this time features one of my very favorite silent film actresses, Colleen Moore. It is the 1923 melodrama, Broken Hearts of Broadway – a wonderful film that features Colleen just prior to her becoming America’s quintessential flapper.

Copies of Broken Hearts have been around for a while but, for the most part, the available versions have been of rather spotty quality. For this release, however, I have procured a high-definition, 2K scan of 35mm elements from The U. S. Library of Congress. These have been taken through automated and manual clean-up processes and overall, the results are quite good.

Link to Kickstarter campaign: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...hearts%20of%20

Link to comments: https://www.nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33328

The key takeaways I see are:

• An individual must select a favorite film to restore. You will never get a group to do the selection.
• The campaign will linger in the "discussion" phase indefinitely, until the Kickstarter campaign is started with goals defined by the initiator.
• It is possible to create a digital master of a restored film at a reasonable cost per donator. Printing the digital restoration to film would be a separate project.

[Ed Gordon]

Here is another resource that may be useful:

Print to Film

Cinelab offers a full range of traditional film to film printing options and also 16mm and 35mm digital to film services.

We offer Peterson 16mm wet gate and B&H dry gate 16mm printers. We have a B&H 35mm panel printer will all optical sound heads. We can make workprint and timed 16mm and 35mm prints.

We also have a Producer’s Service 16mm / 35mm / VistaVision computer controlled optical printer formerly owned by famed LA FX man Harry Walton and used on shows like RoboCop and Indiana Jones. Capable of blow down and blow up work plus a range of traditional VFX work, available as a service or for the DIY person who has a FX job they want to do.

Digital to Film:
Cinelab has two Arrilaser 2K/4K laser film recorders with one setup for intermediate and the second for shooting to negative.
We built a first generation 2K 16mm recorder in house and we are building two second generation 16mm recorders, one high speed with real time optical sound capability, and one 4K slow recorder for best image quality.

We are currently exploring several possibilities for recording directly to print stock with sound in both 16mm and 35mm.

Link: https://www.cinelab.com/#/maritime/

[Philip Hamilton]

I *think* I called Cinelab about doing Super 8mm and all I got was a 'rock'. (shameless reference to ITS THE GREAT PUMPKIN CHARLIE BROWN!).

I called some other film services too and really no one in the USA handles Super 8mm prints. Either producing them or striping them. Some do 16mm. At least that was my experience.

[Simon McConway]

Personally, I'd never trust Kickstarter again, after personally putting in £100+ back in 2015 to the Ferannia project where they promised a new Super 8 camera film. Update after update came, along with videos showing the excellent progress they were making, it really filled me and 3000 others with confidence. Years later and they simply said "project failed" with absolutely nothing to show for what I'd invested. Looking into this legally, I found there was more chance of finding a needle in the ocean than getting my money back. I found the hard way that "all that glitters is not gold".

[Brian Fretwell]

Yes it seems they never got any further than their P30 35mm still film and that is not consistently available.

[Steve Klare]

It's just like any other kind of investment: yes you are putting your money towards some goal, but at the end of the day it's really just legalized gambling. You hope it's a good enough idea and you hope the people behind it are serious, honest and competent, and you hope that uncontrollable circumstances stay favorable, but at the end of the day there is always the risk it won't work out.

One of my Finance professors once said "I never bet my mortgage payment."

[Mike Newell]

Not really legalised gambling more a fool and his money are easily parted.

[Douglas Meltzer]

I believe Kickstarter's success rate is under 40%. For projects that I've contributed to, the percentage is 33%. A friend's film did not reach its funding goal and I was not charged for it. Other projects have had a couple of stages where the first part met their goal but not the second. No refunds there, however I knew that going in. I'd be willing to try again.