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Sound Striping in the USA

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  • Osi Osgood
    replied
    I have had that same experience with my print of "The Mark of Zorro", in that, the paste stripe was just starting to unglue itself, and it wasn't just a little piece here and there, it's long sections! I finally had to consider it a mute print, so much of it being mute now! Laminate does not have that quality.

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  • Brian Fretwell
    replied
    That was manufactured in Britain by Carnall who also made "The Equaliser" used to trim film that had been badly split from 16mm.

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  • Graham Ritchie
    replied
    Remember I mentioned "Cut a Rut" well I came across it while I was looking through old magazines today, have a read its interesting in its use.
    Click image for larger version

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  • Philip Hamilton
    replied
    Burton - you may be correct regarding the paste stripes. As collectors, all we want are options. Competition is good for the consumer.

    I am pretty sure that nowhere in North America is magnetic stripe or paste being offered. And as far as I know only Movie Magnetic in Italy offers the pasting solution - with restrictions and requirements for other services many do not want or need.

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  • Burton Sundquist
    replied
    ...I have a laminate striped print from a German lab on acetate stock bought in 2017. 7X 600' reels. It has held up well but during the first screening, but about 45 seconds of reel 4 just peeled off at the entry guide to my projector before I could stop it. 45 seconds gone like that on a stereo recorded film, a classic at that. No other way to slice it! Magnetic paste is the Audio Futture of Super 8 Sound. I agree with Joerg here. I have several magnetically striped prints masterly applied last year and not one has flaked or peeled off.

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  • Graham Ritchie
    replied
    Thanks Joerg and Philip for the info

    I was thinking before Joerg reply is that they must have used some sort of scraping or grinding method to give there super duper bonding agent something to key onto. It would certainly help that's for sure, also taking some of the film surface off as mentioned I think could compensate for the thickness of the stripe being applied, thus the film wouldn't really need a balance stripe. Regarding having a everlasting stripe and not a neverlasting stripe that can only be found out in time. Regarding stripe coming away, there was on sale a small device called "cut a rut" advertised for years in Film Making/Movie Maker long ago, anyone ever used "cut a rut"? I remember seeing a picture of it.

    I take my hat of to anyone these days that offers any striping service, its certainly not for the faint hearted.

    One last thing though is the use of cassette tape slit for that purpose is still a interesting possibility
    Last edited by Graham Ritchie; February 07, 2023, 09:38 PM.

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  • Philip Hamilton
    replied
    Regarding the striping service in Berlin as provided by Andec - Ludwig's response to my inquiry about durability and type of mag stripe on the polyester film he is providing now - I asked him if it would peel off in 20 years or sooner:

    "Dear Phil . Thanks for contacting . Normal laminate didn't work for Polyester.

    For using laminate stripe for Polyester its a special laminate from Agfa, existing since 25-30 years and a very complicated and expensive work . ( In fact at the end expensive )

    The laminate is very thin ( 25 % from normal laminate ) and difficult to handle . So nobody can handle it safe with stereo track ( 0,45 mm ) On the film is at the end only magnetic paste - no layer like normal mag stripe -

    But ist very plan and has the same quality as Agfa F 5 stripe or pre-striped Kodak Polyester .

    Much better as paste stripe normally .

    I didn't heard about laminate, which makes problems after 20 years? But if it fails, the print is not ruined and its possible to stripe it again. That's not possible with a faulty paste stripe

    But, paste striping its also very difficult . Derann stripes are possible to use a hand nail to elemainte it from the film or its very uneven .

    Alberto's stripe in Italy seems more safe .

    Kind regards,

    Ludwig Draser "




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  • Joerg Polzfusz
    replied
    Hi!

    The glue that is used for putting sound stripes onto acetate based films is kind of dissolving the acetate for a few milliseconds. When it „recovers“ from the chemical reaction, then the sound stripes are „integrated“ into the film base.
    Hence, this doesn’t work for polyester based filmstocks.
    There are two ways of getting stripes onto polyester based film stocks that I heard of:
    a) Some kind of ultrasonic splicing (that’s what Fuji did with their prestriped Single8-films according to some rumors). These devices would have been too expensive for home use.
    b) Using different chemicals that “react“ with the polyester. These chemicals aren’t allowed for home use. And it requires the film to be „milled“ on the edges before using these chemicals (to increase the surface for a „better“ reaction and to remove any additional coatings the film might have). (That’s what Chris Filmtechnik used to do. Their device is now used by Andec.)

    The main problem with these stripes is the lack of new material. ORWO stopped producing them in 1990/91. And Agfa stopped producing them in the mid-1990s. So, liquid paste is the only thing that has a future.

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  • Philip Hamilton
    replied
    Thanks Graham. Good point. Not sure how we find out the answer to that one. As previously stated there have been some prints with a striping problem that appears to have been addressed and corrected. Although I am not sure exactly what material is being used for the stripe or what type of adhesive.

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  • Graham Ritchie
    replied
    Thanks for posting that link Rodney, I must have watched it in the past as I had clicked a like to it. The Rexette was a simple to use and well made striper, the thing though, was to make sure the film edge for the stripe was "really" clean. I cant remember what I used, but I gave it a clean twice over to be sure. Its been around 40 years or so, the laminated stripe is still hanging on, no problems at all. In saying that, the Rexette instructions does state its not to be used on polyester film stock. I did ask this question on this topic a while back if laminated stripe was being used on polyester, but got never got a reply. I don't want to find fault, but how is it being stuck on?

    I do hope what ever they are using, that the stripe does not start to come away sometime in the future.

    I did some measurements today on a strip of film being .005 thousands on an inch, with stripe the edge thickness came to .006 thou. Stripe is .001 thick. Now if you want to make your own laminated stripe, buy up some good quality Compact Cassettes, remove and slit the tape, its the same .001 thick, however you will need make a precision cutter for the job, and there you have it, quality laminated stripe. The Rexette as shown in the video can do both main and balance stripe.

    Anyway all this is fine for acetate film stock, but to my knowledge so far, only paste striping has ever been used on polyester, but as they say, nothing is impossible, would like the good folk doing this service to come to the party on the forum and describe how they are doing it, after all you folk are the ones spending the big bucks on these films.

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  • Philip Hamilton
    replied
    Originally posted by Lee Mannering View Post
    Still using my Rexette Graham 

    Only thing that'll stop things here will be ongoing health issues. Grr.
    Collectors who have partaken seem to enjoy the sight of a new movie as indeed do we here.
    Price wise they are actually good value and sure everyone will have seen just one old trailer selling on fleabay, sorry ebay well over £50 only last week.
    ​​​​​​​The majority from this side of the pond have some very good extras as well including rare daysets, Cinema idents and no less than 4 trailers all for £135 new.

    ​​​​​​​Never thought I would be able to buy new movies with the digital onslaught but it's sure a thrill!

    Enjoy your Super 8 old or new

    ​​​​​​​Ps. Trailer on ebay at the moment 285117249469
    Might be of interest to someone.



    Lee - any plans on releasing ALIEN as a 600 ft digest this year?

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  • Philip Hamilton
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Adsett View Post
    I would have thought that the balance stripe was essential for maintaining uniform focus, particularly when using the very fast f1.0 lenses, which have extremely low depth of field. Now if you are using a projector with a rear sprung gate then it would be no problem at all.
    I have an ELMO ST-180E M. With standard provided lens etc.
    Last edited by Philip Hamilton; February 02, 2023, 01:33 PM.

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  • Paul Adsett
    replied
    I would have thought that the balance stripe was essential for maintaining uniform focus, particularly when using the very fast f1.0 lenses, which have extremely low depth of field. Now if you are using a projector with a rear sprung gate then it would be no problem at all.

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  • Philip Hamilton
    replied
    Originally posted by Rodney Bourke View Post
    This Youtube Video by Dream Catcher Films, on Super 8 Sound Striping is a very helpfull Doco, 10 mins.
    Written by Peter Axford & Carl Brandwood. With thanks to Richard Read, Adrian Simmons, Ged Jones & Derann Film Services.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBQ0_tOAyJQ&t=1s
    Thank you for posting this. Excellent!! It's hard to believe that it seems that NOWHERE stateside does this equipment exist in working order.

    Also I understand the idea of a BALANCE stripe that it would seem to keep the film in focus however all of my sound films have only the left track (MONO) except a handful of new titles recently purchased that were striped in Italy. All those Blackhawk and Castle films were single striped - correct? I have never noticed any FOCUS issues with the single striped film.

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  • Osi Osgood
    replied
    Glad to hear you received your Star Wars 600ft. Hopefully, mine will arrive soon.

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