A Very frustrating Hobby.

[Alan Myers]

I have been on here for a short time now and here is what I have learned in that short time.
I have learned of the price of new films which have already jumped up by £10 for 200ft, at £140.

I have followed some of the links to ebay sales where I find movies being advertised with start prices of 999.99, AND, they have bids on them! And even one on 16mm, Phantasm, at over two and half grand.

I have seen exciter bulbs discontinued for Eiki and Elmo projectors which, in time will render them silent only machines, I have seen many films for sale that are red and scratched, AND people actually pay good money for them.

BUT, on a happier note, it's nice to know that I am sitting on some money, haha.
In conclusion, I cannot see how any new collectors would want to join the hobby unless they had an enormous bank account with so many other modern ways of projecting film. Another problem I think I can see is this, with the cost of a new film, the projectors would have to be in some heck of a good condition to run them without danger of scratching them, some of the sums fetched on ebay would frighten me to even project them.

So what of the future? Any thoughts? 4K looks increasingly good to me with films no more than £40 new and a fiver if you wait a few months, I know it isnt the same, but in these days of hardship. I really dont get where people find the money for ten minutes of film.
Help me understand please.

[Graham Ritchie]

Sorry Alan I can't help you understand as I don't understand it myself, my last new film I got was from the good ole Derann days, they were expensive back then, but nothing like what they are now. As to the future? there isn't anything in it for newcomers, its become way to expensive for most, it makes no sense due to the high cost of not just, new but second hand as well, also as most film collectors are getting on in years, myself included I doubt it has a future, "time" is marching on for all of us as they say, in saying that I do enjoy with what I have got from the good ole extensive Derann second hand lists from long ago and "DO" enjoy screening actual films, but also I should add, enjoy watching them projected on a VP as well. I to don't understand how a film like Star Wars is worth over a thousand dollars or should I say pounds. I saw it in the cinema back in 1977 and thought it was great, bought the Ken films 400 footers at the time, all faded now. In fact at a convention here a few years back $5 was it, if anybody wanted one, if you were lucky.

I honestly cant stand the idea of screening "badly" faded or scratched prints, I keep the reels and throw the rest out, same with a 16mm Scope print of Star Wars I had a few years ago, its junk and out it went into the red bin, I found a better use for the reels though. The best thing for this hobby is to scrap badly faded or scratched prints and take them out out circulation, but I guess for some its about making money.

I will continue to enjoy the "films" that I do have, some say Digital is not reel film, my answer to that is "who cares" as long as "you" enjoy sitting back and watching the screen however the image might get there

Anyway if folk want to spend zillions on films and have zillions to do it, I do wish them all the best and enjoy the big spend

[Shane C. Collins]

I'll come in on this from a different angle. I got into Super 8 18 years ago so I could shoot silent home movies. I've been doing so since, and have enjoyed it over the years. In recent times the cost of silent color reversal film from Kodak has more than doubled. As a result I shoot maybe 4 or 5 carts a year. I can tell you from this side of film, there are many people around the world who are just starting out shooting Super 8. Kodak's sales of Super 8 both in negative and reversal stocks are doing well. I've heard through some sources, that Kodak has a hard time keeping up with demand at times. That is a good thing for films longevity from the stand point of shooting film. The best part and biggest thrill is getting your processed films back and threading them into a projector.

Late last year I decided to buy a few sound films from the old days. A Little Rascals print, and Tom & Jerry are among the few I purchased. Certainly it's fun and I've enjoyed viewing older movies in this manner. But, I honestly don't see myself buying too many sound films because of the prices I've seen at places like eBay. I was stunned when searching through some of the prints for sale. I had to do a double take on some of these prices they want for films that are in some cases 50 plus years old.

[Ed Gordon]

Film is in the process of fading away in more ways than one. I have a nice collection, but at today's prices, my collection will not be expanding. It makes me sad, but I have to admit that I am very happy to be able to watch 4k UHD in my home cinema. I have loved film and movies since I was a child and although it is sad to see it going away, movies are still here, and will always be.

[Osi Osgood]

Yep! Expensive hobby and I am dang glad that I got back into it long before people started charging rediculous pricing, but there are still bargains Tobe had. I just bought a standard 8mm sound print, a fairly early feature print of "Babes in Toyland" Laurel and Hardy, 1934, with an exceptional image and print quality, for 25 bucks. However, as a rule, expensive. I would suggest getting as many of those rare parts while you can.

[Alan Myers]

Thanks for your replies.
I do have a fair collection but like many, I dont add much these days unless the films are from other collectors or dealers who do still sell films at very fair prices. I suppose ebay has, in a weird way, kept the prices of films high and opened the market to the world rather than relying on monthly lists like the golden days of the hobby. Like many things, I guess it is a specialist hobby and things will become harder to find and equipment more difficult to keep maintained.

Shane, It's interesting to see that you can still shoot on super 8, are you able to point me in the direction of where to buy the super cartridges and is it like the older days where you shoot, then send off the yellow envelope, and lastly, what's the cost of a reel these days?

[Mike Newell]

The film collecting world has always been a chaotic Alice and Wonderland universe that never made any sense to the insider let alone the outsider.


When it started it was a rich man’s hobby of either 16mm or baby 200ft silent digests who had artwork (cue certain collector) that was brilliant but the contents were basically crude inside.

Then in the mid 1970s to early 1980s you had the digest and mini feature releases. Amazing that it basically happened over a period of less than 10 years.

Then you had video. In reality that should have been the end of film collecting but Derann bravely tested the waters and followed the existing demand trend of full length features and we had the Golden age from 1986 to early noughties.

The main difference between film collecting and video was that you could built a home cinema and project a cinema type image. Once DVD and then Blu Ray arrived with digital projectors then the one difference disappeared. It may surprise some but one of the biggest doomsayers to the decline of super 8 was Derek Simmonds. If you knew him well he was warning that the end of 8mm was coming well before his death way back to the original striping problems they had when prestripe stock was discontinued.

8mm is like the proverbial vampire 🧛♀️ no matter how much you stake it down it won’t die. 16mm is a different universe as long as you like your film 40 years or older you will be content.

There are an array of problems with film collecting which have been discussed and covered many times. The biggest however is the ever aging population of men and it is men who are north of 60 some so far they are at the North Pole.

Once they depart there will be no hard core of rich old pensioners to buy. As for prices forever going high don’t bet on it . What goes up come down. When I was culling titles most of my sales were to memorabilia collectors not actual put film on projector guys.

If you watch eBay the cracks are already showing. Fine if you want to keep advertising at silly prices but how long do you wait for a sale. Years or Decades.

[Graham Sinden]

It's only expensive if you are searching for those top prints of modern films everyone wants and/or new films strait from the lab.

Go go the BFCC and/or Blackpool and you cam still find films for £5 and projectors that are reasonably priced. Ok you won't get any Arnold Schwarnegger for that price unless it's trailers if you're lucky, but you can still experience the Super 8 hobby on a budget. Thousands of old Walton prints,Mountain, PM films, MGM, Ken films etc. Tom and Jerry's Chaplin, Laurel & Hardy, Grease, the list is endless. They will probably be a bit faded and have the odd scratch or sprocket damage but you may enjoy them just the same and easily affordable to have the Cinema in your own home.

[Mike Newell]

It's only expensive if you are searching for those top prints of modern films everyone wants and/or new films strait from the lab.

Go go the BFCC and/or Blackpool and you cam still find films for £5 and projectors that are reasonably priced. Ok you won't get any Arnold Schwarnegger for that price unless it's trailers if you're lucky, but you can still experience the Super 8 hobby on a budget. Thousands of old Walton prints,Mountain, PM films, MGM, Ken films etc. Tom and Jerry's Chaplin, Laurel & Hardy, Grease, the list is endless. They will probably be a bit faded and have the odd scratch or sprocket damage but you may enjoy them just the same and easily affordable to have the Cinema in your own home.

This is absolutely true. There was a guy on Armchair Odeons who only collected b westerns or films prior to 1960. If that is your taste fine and dandy. In terms of quality some collectors accept everything soft focus , scratches and pink. The dealers ideal collector. I could not accept any of the three mentioned as for fading and pink straight to the bin jobs. I have also noticed an absolute abundance of Laurel and Hardy 8mm turning up on dealers lists and eBay which takes us back to aging or dead collectors.

[Graham Sinden]

Yes I agree with you. I myself don't buy those old prints anymore as when you have seen the quality of new prints, it's hard to go back to those 'soft' Mountain prints and heavily cut Walton prints which are also no where near the sharpness and contrast of new prints and what Derann printed from the 90's onwards. One of the reasons I sold my old Mountain 'King Kong' feature years ago, the picture quality was poor and I rarely watched it and preferred the DVD.

But if these old b/w films are your thing then Super 8 can still deliver and be affordable and sometimes you can find a gem of a print cheaply. Sometimes these old companies could make good prints if the master used was good. Blackhawk is an example.

[Mike Newell]

I can understand the high prices for modern and new prints but the prices for titles issued in 1970s take the proverbial piss. Some were chronic when originally issued and have not improved in passing years. Always, preferred Universal 8, Marketing , Ken and Walton myself they all have their issues pinking, bad editing and verbal commentary Some of the worst cutdowns in those days were Derann and I avoided their releases like the plague. Blackhawk was always an issue for me full length compared to edited Walton but they were all grainy or looked like they were already 100 years old. Maybe the good ones were only available in US. Least the Derann Blu tint releases were an improvement but then the source prints came from BBC.

King Kong there’s a story. Yes, had the Mountain print then a slight improvement with Derann print. Even now the Blu ray is not perfect some in the jungle scenes are soft because of the creature back projection.

[Phillip Campey]

When you look at inflation the prices are not that ridiculous, in the 90's when Derann where producing features on super 8mm I could never have afforded them as I had a young family to look after. I think most features started at £275 and some even higher. If you take inflation into account they would now cost £700 to £800 to buy which is around the price you would pay for a brand new print from the labs give or take a couple of hundred pounds. I think the reason Star Wars goes for so much money is the fact the Derann print is the version before Mr Lucas started wrecking them with dodgy CGI, Film is the only way to view it as it was as they have only released the originals on DVD which are not very good.

[Lee Mannering]

I don't understand anything.

Film has always been a expensive pass time but be fascinating and very creative as a film maker. Around 50+ years ago projecting film at home on that little Std 8 projector was so magical and I can say still is today. Film, particularly Super 8 in my case is great fun and no one twists anyone's arm to spend spend spend. A small collection can be just as enjoyable as a massive one would be my thoughts.

Have 4K here as well and enjoy that very much, but of course you are just an observer not a reel projectionist. Still love 4K tho although the media is getting over priced for a disc that will eventually fail. I've worked in media now for a few decades so know the score.

Alan. If you get a film fair you can reach its worth going along as you will find something of interest for reasonable money, ebay is not the be all and end all thankfully. Whichever you choose have fun.

[Shane C. Collins]

Thanks for your replies.
I do have a fair collection but like many, I dont add much these days unless the films are from other collectors or dealers who do still sell films at very fair prices. I suppose ebay has, in a weird way, kept the prices of films high and opened the market to the world rather than relying on monthly lists like the golden days of the hobby. Like many things, I guess it is a specialist hobby and things will become harder to find and equipment more difficult to keep maintained.

Shane, It's interesting to see that you can still shoot on super 8, are you able to point me in the direction of where to buy the super cartridges and is it like the older days where you shoot, then send off the yellow envelope, and lastly, what's the cost of a reel these days?

Hi Alan, here in the US I pay about $47 for a cartridge of Kodak's new Ektachrome color reversal film. This current version is awesome as far as sharpness, grain, and contrast are concerned. This stock is pretty amazing projected! For processing I send my films to Dwayne's Photo here in the States. The cost is only $12 plus $5 dollar shipping. That lab is the cheapest in the world, and they do first rate processing. Dwayne's was the last lab in the world to process Kodachrome back in the early 2000's. I'd like to point out that Ektachrome film today is not like the old grainy unstable Ektachrome from the 70's. In fact today's film is a very stable E6 process that should hold up well color wise. My earliest films from 2005 still look brand new. I've talked with people that were shooting Ektachrome in the 90's and their films also still look brand new. Shooting Super 8 today is a lot of fun, as I'm sure you can imagine. Because shooting Super 8 can be costly today, I try to use it for special occasions. Documenting vacations to the beach, back yard parties, etc. I feel as though I'm documenting these important family milestones, and so I'm able to justify the cost. But as mentioned, in the end it's just plain fun to do. The best part is getting the films back from the lab and threading them onto the projecting. Then seeing those images for the very first time. When all worked well the reward is quite thrilling, there's nothing like it really! Below is a photo of what the packaging looks like today. I like that Kodak gave it a retro look. Unfortunately because you're in the UK prices are much higher, and you will likely spend about $60 for a cart of Super 8. But if you choose to only shoot once and a while the price can be justified. Here's a link to the The Widescreen Centre in the UK who sells this film. https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/...er-8-film.html If you decide you want to shoot film in the future let me know. There are a few tweaks that I do when shooting this stock to make it look its best.

[Osi Osgood]

That really is a good way to describe film, one word, "fun", the other comment I felt was quite accurate, in that, with some disc or digital file, you are on the outside, looking in. With film, I can pick it up, look at it, frame by frame and, whether I clean it or splice it, I can watch all of those images, clacking through the projector, and feel like I did when I was in that projection booth in Klammath Falls, Oregon, with my dad, in that air Base theater. It still maintains that magic, to this very day. Sincerely, a video projection 4K or otherwise, does not engender that same magic. I can watch a 4K disc, but if I was to dispose of it, I wouldn't lose any sleep, but if I have that same film in an unrestored film print, it's special, organic and not really disposable.