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What are some projectors with Quirky/intresting features? And your opinions on some.

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  • Steve Klare
    replied
    This may not be a very scientific measurement, but Wittnauer Cine-Twin gets 23 hits on eBay right now, with most being complete machines. So this many decades down the road they must have sold a respectable number to be so common used.

    One of 'em has a Buy It Now of $93,169.06**. (When you dream, dream big!).

    (**Shipping IS free!)

    I remember a teleplay on PBS years ago about a very early filmmaker that travelled town to town shooting film during the day and then pitched a tent and showed films to paying audiences on the same machine after dark.

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  • Thomas Dafnides
    replied
    Wittnauer Cine-Twin​ : Actually, the concept was a rehash of the original Lumiere camera/projector from the 1890s in which the same unit was used for filming and projecting. I think the selling point of the Wittnauer Cine-Twin is that it was cheaper than buy two separate units. I wonder how many they sold?

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  • Todd Kitchen
    replied
    re: changeover: When I was a projectionist, we used dual 16mm Eiki slotloaders with 500W Xenon and changeover. I'm remembering that we would roll the film until the "7" on the countdown leader appeared right at the gate of the second projector. When the first dot appeared on the screen, I'd engage the motor of the second projector. When the second dot appeared, I would hit the changeover button. If I did it right and the machines were working properly, then the audience would never know. But every once in a while the system would fail--the audience would immediately start yelling and heckling the projectionist as the tail leader ran out and white light flooded the screen.

    Sometimes the film rental company sent the reels mislabeled. I once showed a Les Blank documentary that shipped in that condition. So I showed reel 1, then reel 3, then reel 2. I was kinda wondering what was going on when the credits rolled and I still had another reel cued up.

    We didn't have time to pre-screen each picture or even inspect the markings scratched on the head leader.. We had to trust that what was on the reel matched the label. Our documentary/foreign/arthouse films were often one showing only. The film would arrive Thursday afternoon and we'd show it that night, then pack it back up and send it back.

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  • Steve Klare
    replied
    Maybe the ultimate quirky projector was the the Wittnauer Cine-Twin: a movie projector that was also a camera:
    .
    Click image for larger version  Name:	Wittnauer Cine Twin.jpg Views:	0 Size:	58.7 KB ID:	94752

    (The "camera" part configured for a day of filmmaking)


    It's an example of why one thing usually has a tough time being TWO things: compromises mean nothing gets done really well!

    (-and nobody ever tried to market another one.)

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  • Shane C. Collins
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Adsett View Post
    That variable shutter design that Shane shows above is absolutely brilliant! All done by centrifugal force and springs. Makes you wonder if the same thing could be done to automatically switch from a 3 blade shutter at 18fps to a 2 blade shutter at 24 pfps.
    That's an interesting question Paul! I never really thought about it, but why not? Seems something like this could be done, using the same concept as the original Bolex 18-5.

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  • Brian Fretwell
    replied
    The "notch" the Agfa Family camera produced was actually a red dot from an LED so the film wasn't altered in a physical way. (I have one and two projectors)

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  • Joerg Polzfusz
    replied
    Someday, I will get myself an LS2 only to test the DNL audio playback (DNL = Philips‘ alternative to Dolby A)…
    https://www.filmkorn.org/super8data/...nector_ls2.htm

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  • Paul Adsett
    replied
    That variable shutter design that Shane shows above is absolutely brilliant! All done by centrifugal force and springs. Makes you wonder if the same thing could be done to automatically switch from a 3 blade shutter at 18fps to a 2 blade shutter at 24 pfps.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shane C. Collins
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul Adsett View Post
    Well how about the Bolex 18-5? A wonderful high quality projector with a very unique feature of being able to switch to 5fps flickerless slow motion using a brilliantly designed shutter that can automatically switch from 3 to 9 blades. It works flawlessly, but i suspect it is a very clever feature that is actually never used!


    Click image for larger version  Name:	Bolex 18-5 upload.jpg Views:	13 Size:	39.0 KB ID:	94724
    I agree Paul, the whole 18-5 line of projectors is superb! I have the second generation 18-5 Regular 8 projector. This model uses the semi auto loading that works every time! I just ordered the below second generation 18-5L Super 8 version. This uses the same auto loading from the second gen 18-5. However, I plan to remove the bottom film channel so it operates like the second gen regular 8 version. I couldn't find one here in the U.S, so I ordered one from Van Eck overseas. Since that is 50 cycles, I located a frequency converter that converts the 60 cycles U.S. frequency to 50 cycles. So when the 18-5L Super is plugged into the outlet, I will get the proper speed with the frequency converter in use as well. I know it seems backwards to go this route, but I think it should work perfectly! I also like the rear sprung pressure pad that is not a common feature on projectors. Kudos to Bolex for adding this to their 18-5's! I also wanted to add the 18-5L Super coming my way has the upgraded 75 watt spaceman bulb. But I have the Bolex halogen conversion unit that will fit into the Super with no modifications. I'll include a photo of that below as well. And I'm including a GIF animation of how the Bolex shutter works.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Copy of film_20_18-5-L-Super-(before-1970)_1688027595614.jpg Views:	0 Size:	78.7 KB ID:	94732 Click image for larger version  Name:	bolexad1.jpg Views:	0 Size:	66.0 KB ID:	94731 Click image for larger version  Name:	shutter_01.gif Views:	0 Size:	72.6 KB ID:	94730

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  • Paul Adsett
    replied
    Well how about the Bolex 18-5? A wonderful high quality projector with a very unique feature of being able to switch to 5fps flickerless slow motion using a brilliantly designed shutter that can automatically switch from 3 to 9 blades. It works flawlessly, but i suspect it is a very clever feature that is actually never used!


    Click image for larger version

Name:	Bolex 18-5 upload.jpg
Views:	181
Size:	39.0 KB
ID:	94724

    Leave a comment:


  • Todd Kitchen
    replied
    I once found rear-projection cartridge load projector along with a single coax cartridge at a garage sale. The machine didn't work, so I took the film out of the cartridge and was able to play it on a regular sound projector. It was a marketing film for Oleg Cassini. I believe this whole unit was something that you would take to a trade show. Kind of similar to an airline projector for in-flight movies?

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  • Chip Gelmini
    replied
    Yes Doug thank you

    I would also like to add changeovers will work with all machines 8 & 16. Just learn what the machine can do and how it does it then figure out the suggested timing......
    Last edited by Chip Gelmini; January 20, 2024, 03:20 PM.

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  • Douglas Meltzer
    replied
    Chip,

    You had uploaded a pdf (http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/ubbpic...hangeovers.pdf​) about changeovers. Is this what you're referring to?

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  • Douglas Meltzer
    replied
    The Agfa "Family" projector, sold as part of a set with the companion Agfa camera, had a built in screen and an interesting (& quirky!) still frame switch. It could be set to freeze on a particular frame and then manually advance the film frame by frame by repeated pressings of a button. The switch also had a setting marked by the number 5. When the still button was pressed, the projector would hold on that frame for 5 seconds and then start running again. There was also a 3 second option. These also had another use. The Agfa Family camera allowed you take stills using a single frame of Super 8 film. These were notched in the camera, so that when playing back, the projector would freeze the frame in the gate and hold it for 3 or 5 seconds, similar to a 9.5 mm projector holding on a notched title card.


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  • Chip Gelmini
    replied
    THE GS 1200

    As I dive in to the nooks and crannies of what this machine is capable of – things it does that are not listed in the owner’s manual – it can surprise me. First off is sound output.

    If you run via 2 pin din external speaker output; this connection can serve as an additional auxiliary output. Purchase the 2 pin din to rca female adapter – and now you have volume control response as well as mono / stereo switching. This is good when you have mono cartoon shorts on the front of a stereo feature. No more swapping cables. Assign the outputs to individual connections on your receiver. Inside the manual there is a printing error. On the specifications page the external speaker is listed as 6 ohms but is really 600 being the same as auxiliary output. It is perfectly safe to connect the external speaker output to an amp that can handle the load. Very good sound can be achieved by raising the volume knob(s) to between 2 and 3 on the scale while using a Dolby Amplifier to control the screen and surround speakers.

    The next thing I want to discuss is CHANGEOVERS. Although this will appeal to those of us using multiple GS 1200 machines side by side for continuous performance with no interruption in the show progress.

    With a pair of these beasts in top notch condition – serviced to factory specifications and the connection of the optional remote controls – nearly perfectly timed changeovers are possible without the use or need of noisy electric changeovers or the need of splicing dark black leader to the tails.

    You will have to prep your leaders because the placement of # 8 is very important for this to work properly. On the leader between the magnetic tracks use a grease (“china marker”) pencil (white) and draw a 4 inch white line down the frames. I normally make certain that # 8 is in the middle of the white line. This line makes it much easier to spot it coming off the supply reel. Gosh those numbers are so small…..

    During auto load – run down the white line until it is ½ way up inside the take up reel but not yet wrapped around the hub and press the stop button. What this does is allows the leader splice and/or first picture frame and sound to be in and past the gate.

    When you turn the power on – the sound drum starts rotating. When you press play – the loops form quickly and smoothly as the film starts to move.

    Doing the changeover is very easy. As you know there are two sets of cue marks in the upper right corner on most prints theatrically released. Under normal procedure, the first cue is spotted and the motor is turned on. The countdown runs through the machine. After a few seconds the 2nd cue is spotted and levers and buttons are pressed and the switch is done. The operator then returns to the machine out of film and shuts it down.

    With the remote controls – you ignore the first cue mark and wait for the 2nd dot. Upon the 2nd dot you press play on the piano keyboard and switch your sound over as well. Instantly. You then press the stop button on the remote and this will shut down the opposite machine. It works because when the stop button is pressed on the GS1200 the lamp goes off. And this is critical at this point of changeover as you want to eliminate tail garbage from getting to the screen.

    With a pair of remotes connection is important. The remote at each machine will operate the other machine next to it. Remote at projector 2 will control projector 1 and vice versa.

    Somewhere on this forum or the old one I wrote a lengthy post about placing changeovers using leaders, black tail and such. Perhaps someone can find it and post a link as a reply here.

    I’ve run many projectors in my lifetime of this hobby. There are pieces of junk and there are really good pieces of equipment. I started with the ST-800 and ST 1200 and eventually worked up to the GS1200. For a brief time I had a 708-EL the earlier model but it was malfunctioning so I let it go to someone who wanted it. Ironically as a trade I received my first st1200HD with optical and I still have it now.

    But by far my favorite super 8 machine of all time is the GS 1200. It is a work horse of a machine. It’s positively not a toy. It can be very frustrating. But own one or two and have them serviced to factory specifications and you will be amazed at how truly dependable this machine can be.

    Get two. Fix it. Play with it. Have fun. Learn. You will have no regrets.

    Assuming the print has cues, the white line is installed, and remote controls are connected:

    THE GS 1200 CHANGEOVER

    1. 3 minutes before changeover
    2. Turn on the power button starting a machine
    3. Turn on the lamp switch to first stage of brightness (it stays dark)
    4. Watch for and ignore the first cue mark
    5. Watch for and press play on the 2nd cue mark (the lamp goes bright)
    6. And at the same time press the sound changeover button as well (via Dolby remote to assigned input)
    7. Press the stop button on remote control where you just started the machine
    8. Give priority to picture focus, frame, and sound on the new reel just started
    9. Return to projector shutting down and turn off the lamp switch.
    10. Use piano key & press play (lamp stays off) and let the tail run out.


    Note: From the moment you spot and ignore first cue allow 9 seconds for the above steps to be completed. It’s that fast. At the point of actual changeover there might be a very quick double exposure. This is normal and you should allow it.

    CG


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