Alien, The final confrontation 200ft

[Phil Moors]

It seems like poor service from Dorun Films to me. Whilst it is probably true that there is one print run so Dorun can’t offer a replacement print, I feel that it is reasonable that Dorun should offer Phillip a discount, say £30 so that he at least feels compensated for the faults and offer an apology.

I don’t accept that Dorun don’t make any profit from these films, when they can be produced At 7 euros per foot when dealing with the printing company direct. I realise there will be add ons but the option of a partial refund should be there. Additionally, comments from collectors who have not had a print with these problems saying you should be grateful should fall on stony ground, they wouldn’t like it if it happened to them.

Additionally, why is it stated that there will be a 400’ version of Alien when Lee stated that Dorun films will not be releasing films any more from a couple of weeks from now for personal reasons?

[Graham Sinden]

The 400ft is being sold by the Reel Image USA.

[Philip Hamilton]

It seems like poor service from Dorun Films to me. Whilst it is probably true that there is one print run so Dorun can’t offer a replacement print, I feel that it is reasonable that Dorun should offer Phillip a discount, say £30 so that he at least feels compensated for the faults and offer an apology.

I don’t accept that Dorun don’t make any profit from these films, when they can be produced At 7 euros per foot when dealing with the printing company direct. I realise there will be add ons but the option of a partial refund should be there. Additionally, comments from collectors who have not had a print with these problems saying you should be grateful should fall on stony ground, they wouldn’t like it if it happened to them.

Additionally, why is it stated that there will be a 400’ version of Alien when Lee stated that Dorun films will not be releasing films any more from a couple of weeks from now for personal reasons?

Super 8mm prints can be produced less expensively - although that solution is not geared towards ordering multiple prints. Therefore not a model for Dorun or Reel Image or similar.

Dorun uses ANDEC. This German company does good work but requires the creation of 16mm negative. The negative for a 400' film will likely run 2000 Euros. This is before actually making prints and having them striped and recorded. There really is no 'meat' on the bone after ordering films this way. Thus, no profit.

I ran the math on this. You would need to sell 75+ prints at already high prices for many in a small niche market to approach a "break even" on the Negative cost alone!

This business is totally a non-profit endeavor and those who take it on do it because of the love and passion they have for the hobby.

[Tony Lewis]

Tony I sent you a message

Hi Ed I replied to you not sure if came through-I’m trying to navigate on here and I get confused

[Edward Nicielnik]

Hi Tony nothing came through.

[Edward Nicielnik]

Just click my name send private message thanks

[Osi Osgood]

Good points, Phil, and all true.

[Rob Young]

Er, Philip.

Quote..I ran the math on this. You would need to sell 75+ prints at already high prices for many in a small niche market to approach a "break even" on the Negative cost alone!

2000 euros divided by 75 equals 27 euros or thereabouts negative cost per print at 75 prints.

So to actually break even on the negative cost alone you'd need to sell say, 20 x 400ft prints at 100 euros.

Now, I know what you're saying and you need to add in print costs, recording costs, lots of shipping, etc.

But...75 prints to break even???

Eh?

Let's say you sell 20 at 200 euros a print, that's 4000 and at 100 euros negative cost per print.

So unless printing, striping and recording costs no more than 100 per print, you need to sell 20 to get near even at 4000.

75 x around 200 euros is 15,000

I get that the people doing this will be lucky sell 20 prints, so I do feel the love...

[Philip Hamilton]

Yeah from what I figured - If you have $225 in a 400’ print (actual print cost + shipping striping and reoording)and you sell for $250 then you make $25 per print. And even then not everyone - in fact a few small number of people - are going to pay $250 for a NEW 400’ print.

That is and has been the challenge as far as I can tell. So honestly it may mean that some are selling prints for cost plus $25 and THAT is why it will take a large volume of SALES to make back the cost of that NEGATIVE. If, for some reason, a title could easily sell 2 to 3 hundred copies then it’s a different game. But as it is, most who get into this never break even That darn negative just creates a huge challenge in costs to over come.

About a year so so ago someone suggested that a 400’ THE BLACK HOLE would be a great seller. Well, I proposed doing a kickstarter on this to fund the negative etc. ZERO takers…..So there’s that . . .

So as a matter of full disclosure I ordered 2 copies of 6 films from another source - I paid 6 Euros per minute plus shipping which is NOT cheap. My GOAL?? To sell one copy that would cover the cost of 2 copies - so that I would have my 6 prints totally funded. Good idea? I did sell all prints quite easily and fast and I got what I thought was what they would go far - however after selling 6 prints I ended up in the hole about $350. So THAT was my investment for the 6 prints I wanted -plus the fun in doing the edits. Well worth it to me. I was hoping the rarity of these digests would generate more $$ in sales - higher biddding etc. But it didn’t.

It’s really a good thing that some have chosen to release new PRINTS in an effort to keep the hobby alive. They are not making any money though. We should all be thankful.

[Phillip Campey]

So Philip, you have put the time and effort into creating your digests, you’ve spent a couple of thousand creating the negative. Your plan was to create extra copy’s to sell to try and cover the costs of the prints you were keeping. What would you have done if the lab supplied some of those prints with faults. Would you have kept the faulty ones and sold the good ones, or would you have gone back to the lab and complained and got them to reprint the faulty prints? If you want more sales of new prints then you make sure what you are sending out to the customer who has also invested a lot of money usually months in advance is top drawer. I think a lot of collectors would think twice about ordering new prints if there is no chance of getting a replacement print. I have bought plenty of new prints over the years so it’s not like I have not supported members endeavours.

[Philip Hamilton]

Philip in my case, there was NO negative. The gentlemen who made the prints has a process where he prints directly to Super 8mm. As far as bad prints - I would have returned them for replacements.

[Osi Osgood]

Ironically, it's not a lack of super 8 suppliers these days, it's a lack of potential buyers! Even with only a scant few actually producing new digests and otherwise, (and bless dey lil hearts for doing so!), the perspective buyers talk a lot a lot, whine a lot, but when it comes to putting the cash on the barrel head, they quickly disappear, to reappear, only to now whine about the prices. I sometimes think they actually exist to whine. (Note: not the opinion of the owners of this website).

[Phil Moors]

That’s a lot of whining about prospective buyers.

[Osi Osgood]

If you put out a brand new digest that would go for 250.00 dollars, for 25.00 dollars, those same people would balk and say, "25.00 dollars!?!, I can get the whole film on blu-ray for 10.00 dollars!" 😃

[Phillip Campey]

I’d be giving that job in customer services a miss Osi.😂