Digitizing Super 8 film with sound capture

[Robert Mitchel]

OK, I got a 1/4 inch male monoplug with speaker connections and plugged it into the pictured (#29) DIN output jack. I took one of my stereo speakers, a Fluance bookshelf speaker (30-100 watts) and connected to it. Absolutely no sound coming out of the speaker when I connected the wires. The movie projector sound was fine when I unplugged the DIN so I know the projector film is outputting sound. Not sure why this arrangement didn't work, but maybe the speaker is not suitable? What do other people use?

[Brian Fretwell]

Is there an amplifier in the speaker? The output from the DIN socket would be a few hundred Milli-amps needing a high impedance load. It would have no effect connected to a low impedance speaker and no sound would come out.

[Robert Mitchel]

Yes, there is an amplifier in the projector. I guess you are saying the DIN socket is not suitable for 8 ohm speaker? There is also a 3.5mm monitor socket, I can hear the sound with my headphone jacks when I plug into it, so I know I can get the sound out this way. Right now I don't have a digital line-in recorder, previous guy mentioned this was one way to record the sound without projector noise. Not finding a way I can do the line-in to my computer (iMac) to record the sound.

[Brian Fretwell]

I was actually asking if it was a powered speaker, that is what you would need, a loudspeaker with a built in amplifier as with computer sound speakers (Which you could plug into the 3.5mm monitor socket but would only give sound out of one of the pair) , or a separate amplifier between the projector and the speaker.

[Robert Mitchel]

Gary-
Your suggestion of the Tascam digital recorder sounds most practical for me. It looks like the DR-05X or similar device might be what you are recommending. Will try the clapper technique you mention. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Gary Sayers]

Hi Robert,

My Tascam is the DR-05 and gives excellent results. Do a couple of short test runs first to make sure you have the best sound level.

If your films we're shot at 18 fps, project at 16 and 2/3rds fps and have the video camera set at 1/50 shutter speed. When you play it back, you really won't notice that it's slightly slower. The quality will knock the socks off the cheap transfer machines that are out there.

If the films are 24 fps, shoot the same as the 18 fps films but speed up in editing. If you don't want to do this in editing, project at 24 fps and have the video camera shutter at 1/80.

Gary

[Robert Mitchel]

Hi Gary-
I don't have the projector speed options you are talking about, but I have noticed that the sound is consistently about 7% slower than the digitized frames when I project at 18 fps, that comes out to just about what you are talking about with 16 2/3 fps. In iMovie I can squeeze the entire sound track to make them roughly match, from there I try to sync in using lip reading so it looks good. I have to remove the 'Mickey Mouse' voices you get when squeezing the sound. I am inserting titles as I go along, so I have to split the picture and the sound at the same point, it gives me multiple places to double check the match. My worst problem is finding where the Wolverine feed hangs up and repeats some frames for several seconds, those have to be editied out. Sometime the opposite where some frames are skipped, so my methods are fairly low-tech at this point. I am getting the DR-05, but I noticed at least one model does not have 3.5mm line-in according to reviews so I am choosing one that does. Thanks for the advice.

[Gary Sayers]

Sounds like you are getting to grips with this project very well Robert. The DR-05 looks to be discontinued now and was replaced by the DR-05X. Surprised that one of the reviews didn't appear to have a line in but perhaps the reviewer just missed it off the review maybe? Good luck with your project, it will be worth it when you get it all completed.

[David Brown]

Hello

Just a quick comment that I am doing the same thing with audio films. I have a modified Wolverine, a Hawkeye, and I'm using a Xoom H1 recorder that looks comparable to the Tascam. It does have line in and line out. I'm feeding sound from the projector into the Xoom's line in and thru a line out to a video camera to record sound and picture together. I did just place video camera near the speaker, but projector noise is too loud.

The projector's audio output is at speaker level. I bought a cheap "speaker level to line level" adapter. I think any amplifier's sound is better when the volume control is at least at a third to half volume.

Xoom's audio, the recorded video, and the captured frames all go into the video editor. Align the captured frames with the video and the audio too. Then there is no issue with sound sync.

Last, change the playback speed once everything is synced.

[Robert Mitchel]

I have a Tascan DR-05X recorder now, I have used it a bit. There's a big problem I have - when I use earphones from the output monitor I can hear very well, regardless of what jack I am using. However, when I connect to the Tascam and record using a cable in, I get very poor sound quality, lots of electronic noise like humming or clicks. I thought it was the type of jack I am using, but I have earphones with different jacks and I can hear using all of them quite well. The jack I am using for the Tascam is like the one on the blue earphone. I have tried using the low frequency cutoff but the sound is still very poor. The earphone with the white cord came with the Elmo projector so the jack is the preferred one, I guess. I also tried recording in mono rather than stereo. Nothing helps. Maybe I am overlooking something?

[Gary Sayers]

Have you tried just doing a test record from the projector to the tascam without having any headphones plugged in? Try this and then remove the memory card from the tascam and check the quality of the recording on a PC / laptop.

If the quality is still poor, it could be the projector output, the connectors to either the tascam or the projector or it could be the tascam itself that's faulty? Then again, it could just be some techy thing about the quality of the cable.

Someone with more technical knowledge than me will hopefully be able to help if its any of these scenario's.

[Stan Jelavic]

Google for Tascan DR-05X recorder hum and noise. There are several discussions on the internet with similar issues. One possibility is that the recorder is picking up noise from other devices like the cellphone. Possibly other devices.
But obviously it could be issues with the connector/cables. Also the termination impedance is different with the earphones plugged in and the recorder in but that is a slim possibility in my opinion.

[David Brown]

Robert, if you've not already read thru this thread, it might help. Probably begin at post #22

https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/vbb/f...telecine-issue

[Robert Mitchel]

Update on the Tascam recorder. I used a line out to headphones so I could hear directly what was being recorded. Lots of electronic noise, when I wiggled the input line it changed in nature, so I concluded the Tascam line-in connection was causing the problem. Returned the Tascam back, asked for an exchange for a different one. We'll see if this was the problem.

[Robert Mitchel]

In response to Brian, the speaker is not a powered speaker, maybe I missed that it needed to be. I used a Fluance 8 ohm bookshelf speaker which has 30-100 watts input range. I'm not sure how to get a powered speaker, the guy I bought the Elmo from says he uses an Elmo external speaker, which has the 1/4 inch monopole connection needed to the DIN output jack.