Digital Camera Recommendation for DIY Telecine?

[Shane Graber]

I just found this forum and am looking forward to talking with people about building a DIY telecine.

I have about 40 Super8 family videos to convert to digital. I originally purchased a Wolverine scanner for the project; however, once I used it I realized it left a lot to be desired. Thus, I'm looking at building my own. I purchased a B&H 346A projector and have gone through it to make sure everything's clean and in working order. It's working well, so I'm now working through the parts list I'll need to finish this project off. I've got a game plan for converting my B&H 346A projector; however, the one thing I don't have a good plan for is the capture device. I do not have a mirrorless dSLR (I do have a Nikon D200 but it has a mechanical shutter). I can budget about $250 or so for the capture device as I will be selling my Wolverine for about this price. What would be the best camera option for me?

Thank you in advance for any help people can provide!

[Stan Jelavic]

Hi Shane, judging by your post you are considering to go frame by frame which is a good plan but you will have to make some tradeoffs.
The mirrorless DSLR cameras are still pretty expensive so you would have to get the used one if you want to go the DSLR route. But then you will need a good quality macro lens. The lens alone will kill your budget. In addition you will have to do the motor mods and add trigger.
Possibly you could go with a custom lens directly into the DSLR. I could probably test this for you. That way you save a bundle because macro lenses are expensive.
Perhaps a used camcoder with a 50mm projector lens but then you will not get the frame accurate capture but still decent quality. If you go that way then you may want to consider my ELP project.
https://github.com/vintagefilmograph...ith_elp_camera
I also built several Sankyo systems with the ELP camera and I am selling them.
https://github.com/vintagefilmograph...l_time_capture
I can sell you one for $250 plus shipping. Message me privately if interested or look at the details if you want to do something similar yourself.

[Shane Graber]

Hi Stan: After posting this and doing more research, I realized my budget for what I want may be low. After looking at the options, I think long-term I'm going to have to invest in a mirrorless DSLR and pony up the price for a good lens. That being said, I might pick up a less expensive option like you suggested above - the ELP camera. How does the final video quality of this camera compare to something like a Lumix G5 camera with a Laowa 25mm f/2.8 2.5-5x ultra macro lens?

The link to the camera is corrupted on the GitHub project page. I'm assuming this is the camera you are referring to in your repository?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E8OC1OG...s_m_5_i_n&th=1

The image capture will be different comparing the mirrorless camera vs. the ELP - camera SD card vs. captured to the PC, but the ELP route would allow me to fix the problems with the projector control / lighting first. Honestly it may be "good enough" to not even bother with a DSLR?

Thoughts?

[Stan Jelavic]

Hi Shane, I replied to you privately but just for the of other that may be interested in the topic,
I fixed the github links.
I am checking my archive to see if I have a good DSLR frame to frame capture and if I find it I will compare it
side by side with the ELP.
Generally, the frame by frame is frame accurate and dis better quality than frame grabs from a video but the difference is not
huge based on my tests.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Hi Shane. We probably had met on somewhere else (a Facebook group I think) right?

To add more confusion to you😆 here's another reason to consider mirrorless camera - its flexibility.



Besides using my GH5 for Super8 & 16mm film scanning, I'm now in the process of using the very same camera for scanning loads of my family's photo negatives. Just adding a copy stand, a DIY light box & film holder, and now I'm already in the business.

And of course when I'm done with this session, I can take the camera out and start taking some snapshots & videos with it.

I've bought this camera 2nd hand last year relatively inexpensive with some cosmetic damage, but otherwise fully functional. This is by far my best investment ever.

[Shane Graber]

Hi Nantawat! Yes, I believe we're both on the same FB group. That is definitely a good point: the camera + lens can also be reused for other things. I do have a lot of 35mm film that's sitting in a box from when I was a child. What software are you using for your 35mm scanning?

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

For Panasonic cameras there's a software called LUMIX Tether - used for not only monitoring the image to be taken, but also controlling your camera from your PC, and instantly acquiring captured images into your PC as well.

However NOT all camera models are supported by this software. Not sure whether G5 is supported in this software?

Anyway I believe that most if not all other major brands would have similar software for their (recent) model lineup too. Therefore more research homework for you to do.😁

[Joe Fenwick]

Wow! Great thread. Like your DIY copy stand Nantawat.

I'm not sure about the advantages of the mirrorless camera over the mechanical shutter of a DSLR as a mechanical shutter can be locked open. Early mirrorless cameras were plagued with poor quality Electronic View Finders (EVF) and it wasn't until maybe 6 years or so ago that development of quality EVF systems brought the mirrorless cameras into demand and the DLSR cameras into the dinosaur age. Are you just meaning the capability to tether onto the a computer or other benefits? My Nikon DSLRs will tether to both my PC and Mac computers. I was thinking to build a DIY film scanner project using my Nikons, for when my Wolverine 1080p scanner dies; thus far I haven't actually done anything other than read about the subject. I can't see pawning the Wolverine off on someone as the guilt would keep up nights. Perhaps checking the Facebook group mentioned in this thread would shed light on that (no pun intended; however, welcomed).

Shane if you are still moving forward with this DIY project using the B&H 346A Projector I have the B&H 346A Service Manual scanned in a pdf file. I had emailed a copy to Brad Miller to post in the Warehouse here; however haven't seen it posted. PM me and I can send it to you.

[Stan Jelavic]

A while back I used the Wolverine components to create a system with the Mark2.
Mark2 can run in a video mode and sync with Wolverine.
Or use Mark2 ML mod to run frame-by-frame and mirrorless.
https://github.com/vintagefilmography/DSLR/tree/main
Gives very good results.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uAQ...ew?usp=sharing

It is not an easy mod however but it may be possible to make it simpler.

[Alwyn Adkins]

Thread drift... that (very good quality) video's running slow, Stan.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Hi Joe, welcome to the bottomless of DIYers.

If your camera can be operated in totally electronic shutter mode then yes, that would be a good candidate for using in cine scanning setup. The ability to tether to the PC would make the setup / monitoring work a breeze too, although the rear screen of my camera already seems to get the job done just fine.

But the biggest advantage of using DSLR / mirrorless camera over industrial camera IMHO is the image quality. Also the 12-13 stops of dynamic range would make it now possible to handle even high-contrast films such as Kodachrome - with ease. Wondering if the usual industrial camera can handle that wide dynamic range as well?

[Joe Fenwick]

I noted above someone mentioned modifying a lens. You mean an extension tube? Shouldn't really need to modify a lens other than using the stock 1" (25mm) f/1.6 B&H 346A projector lens and an appropriate length of extension tube to get the focal length needed to capture the sensor size of the camera used right? The B&H lens will focus an image within a few inches to shoot prime focus using an extension tube in place of a lens on the camera; like you'd use for astrophotography with a telescope. I haven't done this my projector but was assuming it would work.

[Joe Fenwick]

I have focused the image to within about a 35mm frame size from the projector lens, approximate 2 or 3 inches. Would be a very short extension tube as the sensor is an inch or so from the lens mount.

[Joe Fenwick]

Nantawat - I just saw your note and thank you. I am slow. lol And yes, this is a mode of photography I am totally new to; however, gaining interest.

[Stan Jelavic]

Thread drift... that (very good quality) video's running slow, Stan.

Just mentioned it because it is related to the subject.
Camera - Mark2 (DSLR) capable of mirrorless mode using the ML mod
Lens - 17-40mm inverted
So if you have a Canon DSLR and a zoom lens you may be able to use it.