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Of screenshots and the pitfalls of film collecting ...

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  • Of screenshots and the pitfalls of film collecting ...

    OK, this is no doubt, not a new subject for this forum, but it may be the for this new forum, so I’ll continue.

    As a film collector, it can be very hard to know good color when you see it on ebay or elsewhere. Recently, I just bought a 16MM commercial, and from the screenshots, the color looked about 90 or more percent good.

    When I received it, I had a definite Kodak SP browning to the print with, perhaps 50 percent color.

    Agravating …

    … but it can be even more difficult. I have been looking for a good color print of “Gorky park” (an optical sound feature that has notoriously had bad to only so-so color from my experience). Now, when I saw this UK auction, I was pleased to see actual strips of the film, optical track included, and it appeared to have OK color. I blew up the screenshots to really scrutinize it further, not for clarity of image (as, of course, the more you blow up the photo, the more digitized the image becomes), but it appeared that the print looked pretty darned good.

    When I received the print, it was a very red faded mess, which was, needless to say, frustrating. It was only after I scrutinzed the sprockets more clearly, I noticed that there was a most definite cyan/bluish tint in the sprocket area, not in the actual image or the soundtrack.

    Now, some of this could come, unfortunately, from a “white setting” that can happen automatically, but more often than not, it appears that many sellers, shall we say, “doctor” they’re screenshots to alter the color to a pleasing palette.

    I tell you, you almost have to be a film “chemist” (Like our Lee Mannering), to actually, really be able to tell good color from bad color at times.

    Your thoughts, folks?

  • #2
    For me ebay will always be a lottery probably why in the UK many call it fleabay. It's a tempting place on the face of it BUT I've noticed some pretty manipulative manouvours with images re scratches. Some appear to be showing photo images without the lines softening images but when the film lands its tram line heaven. Clever but not very really fair. More of this is happening sorry to say a d not a good feeling if you get bitten.

    Flip side we know these films are not new,mint,good as new, minty or perfect. By nature of any mechanical movement expect wear as much as we hope for perfection.

    Expectations differ greatly particularly if you are new to it or are part of the has it got the original leader and tail brigade. Most of us back in el day spooled our films up
    On big reels for convenience as most will know anyway.

    Not all things in life are fleabay bound despite the adverts telling you what a good job they have been doing during Karaoke Virus for us all. Hmm. I think things are becoming centred around fleabay more and more but as a former film fair organiser we have failed collectors very much not hosting events anymore.
    This I do feel will change if we make it change and we do have young blood who want to learn the ways of the film force.

    2021 will see a new awakening for film events and hopefully collectors will support them globally. I still believe attending a film event is key for interaction, learning and hands on buying. You have the opportunity to ask others about a film or equipment face to face and support each other in this great hobby.

    Blackpool is looming before long and you will be seeing a return of my Lancashire Film Fair as well. But fleabay is what it is, you cant project the film before buying or twiddle the knobs of a projector to see if one is about to fall off.
    As they say you pays your money and takes your choice perhaps with a flea bay bail out if it goes skywards.

    My take on todays situation but suport those film events you have much to loose. l dread what film collecting would look like if we lost great traders like Indi 8 and all those brand nes beautiful super 8 releases from the usa for that sake of a garage sale

    Off my Vespa.

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    • #3
      Great post, Lee ... I love learning new info, as I had never heard of "scratch therapy" before!

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      • #4
        It certainly is taking a chance when buying a colour print these days, whether it's Super 8 or 16mm. Only if the seller actually says it's on LPP or Agfa can we be certain that the colour will be as it should be.

        It is indeed true that most eBay sellers are not actually film collectors which is the trouble. They over inflate their prices, I don't bid any more as the prices can rise abnormally, "Buy It Now" is what will attract me if it's a film that I want, and the price reflects what is on offer.

        I should also point out that as the UK is leaving the EU at the end of this year any import from whatever country will be subject to VAT and an added fee for the Royal Mail to handle the proceedings.

        No doubt the Global Shipping Programme will be more widely used, this has the advantage that a buyer won't be suddenly hit by a large unexpected payment request before the film is delivered. If I buy from the USA I only use the GSP.


        Maurice

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        • #5
          Maurice, you've just disappointed me ! I was fearing import fees from the UK but was still hoping that would not happen thanks to agreements. Looks like, it's better to buy before theend of this year...

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          • #6
            I would like to add to this post .as a regular seller on ebay .you can gaurantee all my films will be as i say as i watch the films all the way through so what you see is what you get i know this means less sales as it takes time to check prints that way but the way i look at is i wouldnt want to buy duff prints so why should i sell them .my prices are reslistic and fair this is not a sales pitch .i justvwish more sellers could be like me quality not quantity .and i will support as many film events as i can because like lee says its the best way to meet like minded people .i do collect aswell but unfortunatly the titles id like dont turn up very often .so lets enjoy this great hobby and support each other and not get caught by bad sellers.

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            • #7
              Nigel
              Perhaps you would be good enough to tell us your eBay name so that we can look out for your films on sale.


              Maurice

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              • #8
                i can certainly confirm what Nigel says he is one of the most honest and trustworthy people to deal with. if only all sellers were like him. and re film events,i totally agree with both Lee and Nigel.

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                • #9
                  I also sell on ebay and try to list films in three main sections as best i can, The sound, the print & the colour. These are all most buyers need to know the most. The images i take are with an old digital camera and are taken during projection. Like Nigel, i view films i sell all the way through a few days before before listing and give as best a description as possible. If anything, any reds or browns in my images are always worse than what you see on screen due to the nature of an auto set digital cameras. I dont use filters to try and make them look better as some people do.
                  The worst cases is where you win an auction and a seller cant find it after the listing finishes. How can that possibly happen?
                  Then, miraculously, a few months later, they pop up on a review.
                  As for Nigel, i can also confirm, what he says is exactly what you get.
                  I am very grateful to Nigel for my excellent scope print on 16mm of High Plains Drifter which is now 95% fully restored to its former glory. He is a great seller.

                  https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-b...;t=001021;p=19

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                  • #10
                    Just to add my penny's worth to this conversation, I have bought films from both Tom and Nigel listed on Ebay and have never been disappointed (with Nigel that extends to film conventions, too). It is not my place to reveal Ebay names, suffice to say that the more info that is given for a film, the more confidence I have in buying, not just from T & N but anyone that is obviously putting themselves out and going the extra mile with their descriptions other than "Good condition. Untested." Is that as enthusiastic as they get with their listing that they can only think of three words? Good condition = I'm not going to say its crap, am I ? Untested = If it IS crap then you were warned.
                    Also, as a seller, I pride myself in giving detailed descriptions and adding screen shots. Occasionally, I will also list prints that are pink going on red, but will add undoctored photo's to demonstrate them in the same way as I would for LPP prints. Without going into the politics of whether it is right or wrong to sell pink films, all I can say is that they do sell...... at a sensible price (but I won't go into that either at this time).
                    The only thing I expect from a seller who has bought a pink print.....is 5 star feedback. After all, I have said it is pink.....I have said it has tramlines.....I've shown the screenshots that demonstrate this... I have said there is 5 seconds of silence in the middle. Therefore, was the description accurate? Damn right it was ! 5 stars, please !

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                    • #11
                      Why are these three members hiding their eBay names?
                      I may want to buy from them if their films are so honestly described.
                      I am fed up with many eBay sellers who just don't have any real interest in whet they are selling.


                      Maurice
                      Last edited by Maurice Leakey; August 09, 2020, 05:33 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Maurice - I will send you a PM

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                        • #13
                          PM also sent from me

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                          • #14
                            Gentleman, I salute you. Only one more to go.


                            Maurice

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                            • #15
                              I wholeheartedly agree with Lee and Nigel. The expectations of some of the sellers on Ebay are ridiculous, particularly projectors and 9.5mm films. I onece saw a Pathescope Ace on offer for £200 as an antique victorian film camera!! The only thing that annoys me at the Film Fairs are the prospective buyers who start unspooling the films on offer looking at them with a spy glass with the film rolling down onto the floor by their feet!! Ken Finch

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