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Author Topic: Bulb Issues
Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted May 05, 2005 09:38 AM      Profile for Michael Clark   Email Michael Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, I received my Sankyo 800 projector on Monday. It's worked PERFECTLY since then (I've already used it several times). Last night I was watching a film, and all of the sudden the projector light went out. The film continued running, with sound, but no light. So I turned the machine off and checked the bulb. I forgot to unplug the machine first, and as I began to loosen the bulb, I heard a pop and sparks flew. Now, there is NO sound, and the smaller, dimmer light under the sound head doesn't work. Although the machine still operates and feeds the film. I took the bulb out of my Sanko 460 machine and put in this machine and still no light. Has there been a short somewhere in the machine? It still operates, but just no souond and no light. And wouldn't you know it, I put the bulb from my Sankyo 460 machine BACK into it, and now IT doesn't work either! ARGHH!!! I get real nervouse about electrical issues, so I'm afraid to start tinkering with it. I do know (or assume) that in addition to whatever electrical problems may exist, I think the original bulb is ALSO burnt out, because I can hear a rattling sound when I shake it and also the bulb inside looks burnt. But the bulb from my Sankyo 460 does not look burnt out, but for some reason, it won't work either. So now neither machine has a working light.

I guess I'm really just venting here. I know I'll probably either have to take it somewhere for repair, or just put it up in the closet and eventually buy another one. I guess I should really get an Elmo.

Mike.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 05, 2005 12:51 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That sucks. Is this the one off of Ebay with the 1200 ft reels and the 1.0 lens?

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Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted May 05, 2005 01:34 PM      Profile for Michael Clark   Email Michael Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 05, 2005 02:05 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds to me as though you've just blown a fuse [the projector that is, not you]. have you taken the back off and had a look at the fuses? It's a while since I've had a look in the back of mine but I seem to remember there being more than one fuse, that would suggest that different circuits are protedted by different fuses.

Some times a bulb blowing will blow a fuse, and if it was still powered up when you first tried to cahnge the bulb that would increase the likely hood of a fuse going.

Check them first and then report back [Wink] .

Mike

--------------------
Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted May 05, 2005 02:54 PM      Profile for Michael Clark   Email Michael Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll check the fuse and report back.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 05, 2005 03:13 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I hope that its a fuse. [Smile]
You got a pretty good deal actually. I was bidding for that machine before "Fishdr" had it. We were both bidding on the same item. My high bid was $400 and I bowed out. He won the auction for around $450 and then turned around and tried to sell it for $799. It didn't sell then he tried to sell it for $600. Finally it sold for around $300. He lost some money on it. Ah...the beauty of Ebay!

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

- posted May 05, 2005 03:29 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Michael
Sorry to hear about your Sankyo troubles - I've owned a number of Sankyos in the past including this model and found them to be very robust and well designed so hopefully only a fuse has blown causing your sound problems now. It is unlikely the lamp from your Sankyo 460 would have lasted long as I recall it is a 12v 100watt lamp, with the Sankyo 800 using a 15v 150watt lamp it would most likely have blown it the moment you turned the dial to the lamp on position due to the higher voltage being applied. I'd recommend you check the lamp cable for breaks in the insulation especially where it bends tightly into the machine - suitable sized replacement lamp connectors and wiring are available from disco lighting unit suppliers if yours cannot be repaired or re-insulated. With the top of the range lens and 1200ft extended arms this machine has got to be worth repairing.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

- posted May 05, 2005 08:18 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan: the beauty of eBay alright, I was following fshdr's adventures in trying to make a fast buck off the Sankyo, too. [Big Grin]

Kevin Clark: (why, welcome to the forum!) Good advice, it could indeed be the wire leading to the lamp, even the connector itself. But I too hope it was just a fuse - I recently blew something up inside my Bauer T450 and now the sound heads won't engage during forward projection anymore - I'm having to manually move the pressure pads up for the heads to pick up the magnetic track. Ugh [Frown]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 06, 2005 02:14 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You can get almighty bangs from Super 8 machines when fuses blow. Anyone remember when the fuse in the Xenon went at the Top Hat club during a show about 10 years ago? Sounded like a bomg going off.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 06, 2005 03:37 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes even that dreaded mains filter in the Elmo xenons go with an horrific explosion as Tony knows too well when he was standing next to my machine when it decided to explode.
The Sankyo problem sounds a bit strange to me as I wouldnt expect the Lamp, Sound and pilot lamps to die due to a fuse unless they all come off the same transformer and the transformer itself is protected by 1 fuse. Even if this is the case I would expect the lamp, Sound etc to have their own fuses and also the main drive to be coming off the same transformer. Does the drive work?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted May 06, 2005 06:08 AM      Profile for Michael Clark   Email Michael Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin, what is the drive? Sorry, I'm still learning here [Smile]

I've opened the back of the machine and am looking for the fuse. Can someone point me in the right direction?

[ May 06, 2005, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Michael Clark ]

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

- posted May 06, 2005 12:47 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Michael. I'm sure by 'drive' Kev Faulkner was refering to the motors and film feed which you said are still working OK. Unfortunately I don't have a Sankyo 800 projector to hand at present or I would happily remove a fuse at a time to see if I could simulate your problem - perhaps another Sankyo 800 owner on the forum could try this to establish if a specific fuse is the cause of the combination amp / light faliure?

[ May 06, 2005, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Clark ]

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 06, 2005 01:15 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Mike.

There is a third fuse in my Sankyo 800, it's mounted on the sound board below the fan and up close to the fly wheel. I've marked it with the red arrow on your picture below;

-

I tried what Kev suggested and removed one fuse at a time to see what happened. The fuse on the sound board [marked with the arrow] unsurprisingly isolated the soundboard and thus cut off the sound. The righthand of the two fuses together acted as a main fuse, when I removed that the machine wouldn't power up at all and nothing worked. Now, somewhat perplexingly the lefthand fuse didn't appear to do anything, I took it out and powered the projector up, even set it running with the lamp on and all seemed to work as normal. Hmmm...

I should add that on mine the two fuses are mounted on top of the alloy bracket that the mains plug is mounted in and not on the circuit board.

I don't think I've been much help but I should think that between us we should be able to solve this puzzle.

Good luck [Smile]

Mike

--------------------
Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

- posted May 06, 2005 01:31 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you for trying the fuse removal test so quickly Mike - lets hope the soundboard fuse is the one that has blown on Michael's machine. I think the fuse you removed that had no effect only comes into play when different voltages are selected on the multi-voltage dial.

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Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted May 06, 2005 02:39 PM      Profile for Michael Clark   Email Michael Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin, is THIS the fuse block? When I remove it, there are 5 small metal pins. I don't see anything that I think of as a fuse.


Also, I noticed that the voltage dial is set to 117 volts. That's the setting it was on when I got it, but on my Sankyo 460 the machine is 120 volts. Is this machine set to the correct voltage setting? I don't know if the U.S. should use it at a different setting than in Europe?

[ May 06, 2005, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Michael Clark ]

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

- posted May 06, 2005 02:57 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Michael
My appologies - from looking at your clearer new picture I can confirm what I incorrectly identified as a possible fuse block is actually a connector so please plug it back in (if only I still had one of my now sold Sankyo 800 machines here it would be easier to assist you). Also the fuses that are SOMEWHERE around the mains transformer area have been confirmed by Mike to actually make the machine powerless when removed or blown so don't worry about those ones.
As Mike said in his post above the fuse to look out for is on the sound board, in the area marked by his arrow. This fuse will be a small glass cylinder about one inch or less long and about 1/4 inch in diameter - if you don't have a meter to test for continuity you can try to see if it has blown by looking at it up to the light to see if the wire in the fuse is broken. (this will only be possible if the fuse is made of clear glass and not an opaque ceramic material). I'm off now to remove the incorrect fuse block reference in my earlier post!
Regarding the projector mains voltage settings the 117v one should be OK for your location in the USA if your mains supply is 110v or 115v.

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Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted May 06, 2005 03:47 PM      Profile for Michael Clark   Email Michael Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Kevin. Ok. Mike, after looking in the area your red arrow points to up above, here is a picture of that area, looking down at the board (sound board?). Is that blue thing the fuse? Am I in the right area?
-

Thanks alot for everyone's help, this is helping me to really familiarize myself with the inside of my projector. [Smile]

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

- posted May 06, 2005 06:18 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, that big blue thing is called a capacitor. [Wink] Here's a good picture of what a fuse looks like: (note, this is a very close-up shot, they're normally quite a bit smaller than the capacitor in your picture)
-

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted May 06, 2005 07:18 PM      Profile for Michael Clark   Email Michael Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jan, thanks for the picture! [Smile] That's what I think a typical fuse should look like, but I can't find anything like that in the projector. Maybe I'm just missing it. I'll keep looking! [Smile]

Mike.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 07, 2005 03:23 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Mike

I'm afraid your Stereo 800 is a little different to mine inside. On mine there is a fuse just like the one Jan illustrated next to that blue capacitor, there are also two further fuses on top of the alloy bracket that the mains lead is plugged into. Looking more closely at your picture, I did spot a detail that isn't present on mine and might be a fuse holder - just to the left of the lamp flux switch. This might have a slot for a screwdriver on top and when unscrewed reveal a fuse that is forced in against a spring. Can't be sure though as it's difficult to tell on the picture but your machine must have fuses in it somewhere.

I have the wiring diagrams for the Stereo 800 and will attach one of them here but I'm not sure that it will be a big enough image to decipher. I could always email a bigger image to you if you think it might help. You will notice the two main fuses bottom right.

-

Mike

--------------------
Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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Michael Clark
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Alexandria, VA U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2005

- posted May 07, 2005 06:16 AM      Profile for Michael Clark   Email Michael Clark   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mike! Here is a picture of that little box next to the lamp flux switch. -

There are three wires coming out of it - two from the bottom and 1 from the left side. It looks like the little box on the extreme bottom right of your wiring diagram. I have noted with a white arrow a little button that pushes in, like maybe it's some sort of re-set button. I was able to get the top screw off easy enough, but the bottom screw won't budge, and it feels like if I try any harder, I'll strip it.

There is still no sound or pilot lamp even after pushing this little button. I see the fuses pictured on your wiring diagram. This is strange. I'll keep looking around! [Smile]

Mike.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 07, 2005 04:11 PM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Mike

I don't think there is anything else I can suggest. From the description you gave in your original post it did seem as though the first thing to check would be the fuses. I wasn't expecting there not to be any, especially as my Stereo 800 has three [Confused] . I can't believe that Sankyo would have made a model that had no internal protection so can only assume that there must be either fuses or trips in there somewhere, but where is another matter.

Having said all that, the problem might not even be a fuse or trip, it just seemed to be the obvious first check. I have to admit, I am a little perplexed. I'll give it some more thought and if I have any more ideas I'll let you know, otherwise it's over to the other guys - maybe one of the two Kevins?

Good luck

Mike [Smile]

--------------------
Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 07, 2005 04:50 PM      Profile for John Whittle   Email John Whittle       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like it's time to get out the old meter and start making continuity checks. Since the motor runs, there is still ac from the wall to the switch to the motor, but apparently all the voltages from the transformer (for the lamp and amp) are gone. So first check the wiring for where the 110 side goes to the transformer and make sure there is voltage there, then check the transformer output. Strange as it may sound there are some transformers withe INTERNAL protection and if that's what shorted then it's a matter of replacement. However, it's far more likely that a wire is off somewhere and only by tracing the circuit with a meter will you find it easily.

John

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 07, 2005 06:45 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Guys,

I have just looked at mikes circuit diagram and can see from that there shoulb be 3 fuses. The diagram shows a mains fuse, a fuse for just the lamp and one other for the sound circuits.
If Mike can email me this scan direct I can look at it more closely for you. I have to say that a quick look at this circuit diagram suggests that something more than a fuse is causing the problem.
Mike, can you email me a good quality sacn please.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted May 08, 2005 02:32 AM      Profile for Mike Peckham   Email Mike Peckham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin, will do [Wink] .

Mike

--------------------
Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...

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