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» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Plastic spindle for a Beaulieu 708EL take-up reel anyone? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Plastic spindle for a Beaulieu 708EL take-up reel anyone?
Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted September 02, 2010 09:33 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone by an chance have or know where I can find a replacement for the plastic spindle which holds the take-up reel onto the Beaulieu 708EL?

I see Wittners still list a new set of 2 for sale but at over 110 Euros the cost is a bit steep! That's assuming they still actually have them.

These spindles are such a pain as the three plastic clips which hold the reel gradually break one by one! Grrr! The one that holds the take-up reel on my otherwise perfect Beaulieu has finally broken the last useful clip. [Frown]

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Rob Young.
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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted September 05, 2010 12:47 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone? [Frown]

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Roy Neil
Expert Film Handler

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From: Menlo Park, CA
Registered: Sep 2007


 - posted September 06, 2010 03:01 PM      Profile for Roy Neil   Author's Homepage   Email Roy Neil   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wittner-Cinetec bought the entire inventory of Beaulieu parts, unless someone is manufacturing these parts or has an old parts machine to dissect then you better call Wittner.

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Joerg Polzfusz
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From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted September 07, 2010 10:56 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

have you tried Björn Andersson (Sweden) ( Bjorn dot andersson at brevet dot nu ), Klose (Germany) or Ritter (Germany)? I don't know if they're willing to sell their spare parts without getting your projector serviced by them, but I would give it a try... . There are also several German/Austrian 2nd-hand shop that sometimes sell spare parts without having them listed on their webpages, e.g. http://www.super8film.at/ or http://www.kinotechnikrinser.de/ .

Jörg

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Ricky Daniels
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 - posted September 08, 2010 05:58 AM      Profile for Ricky Daniels   Email Ricky Daniels   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob,

Here's a link to Witttners Beaulieu website and the page with the item you are looking for, just scroll down the page.

http://www.beaulieu.de/pages/s8_wzub1.php?rubr=s8_wzub1

Don't worry about the language barrier (if there is one) as you can order in English on the specific page and they are also very helpful if you telephone.

I recall they also used to have a metal version with a retaining clip for the spool but may have sold them, best to enquire.

From a once proud 708EL Stereo owner who turned Japanese [Wink]

Best,
Rick

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Martin Jones
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 - posted September 08, 2010 06:01 AM      Profile for Martin Jones   Email Martin Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You don't sound Japanese, Rick!

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted September 09, 2010 06:03 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks to all for your replies; I will follow them up and let you know how I get on...

bit reluctant to pay up £100 for two bits of ancient plastic parts...still if it is the only way to keep my Beaulieu going...

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Alan Rik
Film God

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 - posted September 09, 2010 09:38 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I had the metal locking spool clips for my Beaulieu 708EL I would have kept the machine. Every time I would play a 1200ft reel the reel would work themselves slowly off. I actually never had one come completely off but I was always pushing them back on. Not the best design.

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted June 21, 2011 04:45 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
 -

Thought I'd bring back this old thread with some happy news [Smile]

I've finally fitted a new spindle! It was a gift for my 40th last month; my better half ordered it from Wittners and although it was VERY expensive, she tells me they were really helpful and great to deal with.

To be fair, it is a more elaborate part than I remembered, with it's micro ball-bearings and all! Although parts are pricey, I've realised just how glad I am that we can still at least get them (sadly no metal ones left, but never mind).

Anyway, while it was on the "work bench" I had a tinker with other bits and bobs that needed sorting and it is now up and running...and running like a dream.

I fitted a replacement Xenovaron lens about a year ago (courtesy of forum member Mark Todd - the original one literally fell apart) and although I'd tested it and knew it was a good one, the spindle broke shortly afterwards so sadly I didn't get a chance to use it for very long.

Well, now it's had a few films through it I can confirm that the lens is a beauty; super-sharp image with really rich colour. Cheers Mark!

The Beaulieu is just purring and everything I've shown in the last few weeks has just been perfection! I've been using my trusty ST1200HD for the last year and I'd forgotten just what a bright image the Beaulieu has; LOTS brighter than the Elmo despite using the same bulb.

I've plugged the sound through the big surround amp and the results are amazing; totally free of any wow and crystal clear, even tracks that can sound a bit muddy on the Elmo are sounding great.

So I'm one happy bunny! I've been going through loads of films that I haven't run in a while and the Beaulieu is giving them a new lease of life, I've owned it for about 10 years or so but I'd truly forgotten how great it can be when up and running properly.

What a fab projector [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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Ricky Daniels
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 - posted October 05, 2011 05:55 AM      Profile for Ricky Daniels   Email Ricky Daniels   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone else need Beaulieu spindles?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beaulieu-708-EL-Super-8-Projector-Reel-Spool-Holder-New-/350473486994?pt=UK_Photography_VintagePhotography_VintagePhotoAccessories&hash=item5199d90292#ht_ 784wt_1398

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Lee Mannering
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From: The Projection Box
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 - posted October 05, 2011 06:54 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sold

[ July 01, 2014, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Lee Mannering ]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted June 27, 2014 11:11 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob
The Wittner picture seems to show two separate spool spindles, but the wording says "1 stck" which translates as one piece. The eBay link refers to Wittner only supplying one for the price.
For €119 do we get one or two? And, are the front and rear spindles identical?

--------------------
Maurice

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Rob Young.
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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted June 27, 2014 01:27 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Only one I'm afraid, Maurice.

I agree the picture is a little misleading.

Both feed and take-up spindles are the same.

At least we can still get them.

The new rear spindle is still going strong three years on...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted June 27, 2014 03:50 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Mine is 4 months old and still going strong! ha ha

Seriously though, extortionate price but the machine itself is well worth spending the money on in my opinion to get back to A1.

At the end of the day, I was looking in a FFTC edition from 1997 and in it, on the front inside cover, was a brand new Beaulieu Stereo that you could buy back then for the princely sum of £2397
and by that time they didn't even come with a Schneider Lens.

The point I am making is that anything Beaulieu was never cheap, so I don't suppose we could ever expect parts to be, just as in the same way parts for a Silver Shadow now wouldn't be cheap either!

BTW:- as posted earlier, stick to their own spools or other high quality spools such as Elmo and they will last forever.

[ June 28, 2014, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
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 - posted June 28, 2014 02:18 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've translated the Wittner ad "New improved version with two ball-bearings."

How does this differ from the old spindle?

My take-up spindle only has two "springy" claws, the third is broken.

Should I invest? Is replacing the spindle easy?

--------------------
Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted June 28, 2014 07:24 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Very simple to fit,remove the outer coverplate for whichever arm you are dealing with, just two screws, then just one centre screw to remove and re-fit on the hub itself Maurice.(Obviously you will have to remove the toothed drive belt momentarily). It will give much improvement over the standard ones fitted to all machines except the Stereo models, especially when using 2300ft spools.

All original mono and duoplay models were originally just fitted with the basic hub which contained no bearings causing problems when using with large spools especially on rewinding.

Wittners now only sell the improved version with the bearings fitted (2 per hub)and as said, these were already fitted as standard to the Stereo models as a lot of the improvements were, ie 2/3 blade shutter, adjustable lamp holder etc etc.

Keep to using Beaulieu or Elmo spools for longer shows and you will never need replace again Maurice.

Lovely photograph earlier BTW Rob of this beautiful machine!

[ June 28, 2014, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
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 - posted June 28, 2014 10:26 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's just the point, neither 1200' Elmo nor 2200' Beaulieu spools will fit.

My 708EL came with an 800' Bonum spool which fits OK although a trifle tight. It was only when I bought two Beaulieu large spools that I discovered that they would not fit either front or rear. A close examination revealed the broken-off "springy" pin on the take-up.

I then checked the Elmo 1200' which didn't fit either!

I don't want to spend over £200 for two more spindles which will not accommodate my problem spools.

Does removal of the arm side cover reveal the fixing screw? I am used to Elf 16mm spindles which have a screw on the rear side which locates into the end of their spindles. My Beaulieu appears to have round blanking pieces on the reverse side.

Will the new replacement spindles accept all spools without trouble?

Are the ball-bearings used to retain the spools and do they replace the "springy" pieces?

--------------------
Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted June 28, 2014 10:37 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
All your Elmo and Beaulieu reels will fit perfectly Maurice once you change out both hubs. I have no idea why they don't already apart from the fact some of your plastic leaf springs have snapped off. The reels should still fit on ok albeit they would be loose and prone to working there way off the hubs.

The screw that attaches the hub to the shaft is in the centre of the plastic hub as said previously. It is a very small screw, probably only M2 or M2.5. This is the only screw that retains the actual plastic hub with of course a plain washer fitted.

You only need to take the coverplate off to remove the toothed belt and then refit over the new hub which the rear part of the hub contains a built in plastic drive gear for the belt to slip over. Hope this helps, if not PM me your e mail address and I will send you some photo's to show the coverplate removed and the hub before fitting.

As ever I always photograph and document any work carried out on my machines so photo's are already there from a few months back when I did the changeout.

BTW the ball bearings fit into a bore on the inside of the plastic hub and then onto the stationary shaft which becomes exposed once the hub and screw are removed. They do not hold the reels on, nor can they be seen once fitted. Only the plastic leaf springs retain the reels but will not wear or break off again if you only ever fit larger quality reels.

Also, as I have said many times, these hubs will not accept ANY spools. In particular Taylor spools should be avoided. The ones that fit fine are Beaulieu, Elmo, Grasso (800ft or below), Bonum, Gepe, Sankyo etc etc. All of the type that have a solid core to their hubs are generally fine. I also dislike Fumeo reels as these have no solid core on their hubs either.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted June 28, 2014 11:02 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew/Rob
Did you have problems getting spools to fit on the shafts before fitting the replacement parts?
As I read it, some owners have had trouble with spools trying to fall off, my trouble is I can't get them on in the first place!

--------------------
Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
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 - posted June 28, 2014 02:14 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
No Maurice, never.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted June 29, 2014 02:49 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you, Andrew

It does seem strange that my spindles appear to be too big, also I wonder why Beaulieu inserted ball-bearings?

When I first read Wittner's ad I assumed the ball-bearings were in some way for retaining the spools.

We all know that heat makes plastic expand, viz, the Bell & Howell worm gear problem. Perhaps constant use over the years produced friction inside my spindles, friction means heat. Could it be that my spindles have expanded in some way?

I suppose the only answer is to invest in a couple of new spindles.

I paid £912.89 for my projector from Stephan Binder of Super 8 Film in Vienna, Austria. Now it seems I am going to have to spend more money.

--------------------
Maurice

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Dominique De Bast
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 - posted June 29, 2014 03:02 AM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some British Super 8 metallic spools don't fit my projectors as the central hole is too small. It is a question of mm but I had to use a round file to fix it some years ago. I bought a film in UK that was also on a metallic spool that has the same problem (and of course, I cannot find my round file anymore, so I have to wait to see it reappear to watch the film). It is surprising for what is supposed to be standard sizes.

--------------------
Dominique

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Rob Young.
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From: Cheshire, U.K.
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 - posted June 29, 2014 03:16 AM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, I haven't had any trouble getting spools to fit with the old or new spindles either, Maurice.

I think it is generally acknowledged that these aren't the best design though, as they rely upon the plastic parts bending each time you put on or take off a spool, so there is always a chance that they will fail eventually.

Add to the fact that these machines are designed to take big, heavy spools as well and the logic behind Beaulieu's design becomes even more questionable.

There are a few examples of "quirky" design on these machines. They are such well designed projectors in so many ways and beautiful when up and running properly, but some parts you just have to look at and think, "why???"

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Paul Browning
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 - posted June 29, 2014 06:10 AM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I too have one of these projectors and despair at some parts fitted to it especially the back cover!!!!. I just wish it had the retaining clips the GS has, which are simple and work 100%.The clip on the beaulieu looks similar to that on any super 8 viewer editor, perhaps you could buy one cheaper than the clips and adapt them to do the same job, just a thought.

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Alan Rik
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 - posted June 29, 2014 07:54 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I hated the plastic ones too...so because of this I sold the Beaulieu. But lo and behold I finally received my dream machine many, many years later, a Beaulieu HTI and this came with the upgraded metal clips. Now all reels fit AND they don't fall off. Too bad Wittner sold out of the clips. The Beaulieu is one of my favorite machines ever.
 -
The cool thing about these clips which are better than the Elmo design is that once they are clipped down to prevent the reel from coming off they are then pushed to the rear of the machine which locks them into place. They are Locking reel clips. Cool!

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