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Author Topic: Digests on YouTube
Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted March 10, 2012 11:30 PM      Profile for Chris Fries     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe,

Primarily my channel features Super 8mm digests but there are several original videos.

I posted super 8 sound home movies I took at Cedar Point from 1984-1986 and a VHS from 1987. I posted film of my brother's high school marching band preview show from 1985 and a video of the WDW Haunted Mansion from 2000. There are other things I plan to post like a stop motion film my family made when I was young and film I took of my greatly missed Lego Walt Disney World from 1984 - 1986.

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There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 11, 2012 04:34 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris,

With respect, it's not really You Tube's fault that you ran into difficulties with Paramount, or whoever it was.
You're the one who's putting these up there.
As long as you're broadcasting these digests, you're liable to attract the attention of the studios.
The fact that someone else is getting away with posting full features is neither here nor there. They'll only get away with it until the day before they're caught.
In addition, it probably doesn't help that you've been advertising the whole thing on a public forum.
I wish you well and I have no desire to see you get into trouble, but be careful.
[Cool]

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 11, 2012 04:59 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, the reason the full feature of 'Once Upon A Time In the West' hasn't been removed is simply because they haven't spotted it yet. It is possible that when the pirater is caught he will find himself in hot water and not just facing the problem of having his YouTube account removed.

The fact that Chris is only risking copying Super 8 digests is the saving grace here as the owners are not really that bothered. If however, a full feature was made available I think the full force of the law would come down.

Chris, please be very careful - posting those Disney's is a terrible risk as they take every act of piracy very seriously even if those of us in the know don't really view it as piracy. As I said long ago, it's not worth risking your house over. I recommend just showing an extract from an extract to illustrate the sort of quality available. I don't think any of the companies would get upset then and it makes the same point you are trying to make without the risks.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted March 11, 2012 10:10 AM      Profile for John Hourigan   Email John Hourigan       Edit/Delete Post 
Have to agree with Michael on this one -- copyright is something to take very seriously -- it's not something that should be viewed as "it's only a small handful of collectors so copyright doesn't matter." Not to be a wet blanket, but one's desire as a collector doesn't supercede copyright law.

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1158
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 11, 2012 08:37 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's to gain? Honestly, wouldn't it be pride smart, but dollar stupid to spend corporate funds chasing after anyone uploading digests on YouTube. How does a company justify the expenditure of $2,000+ per hour to a law firm to hunt down a clutch of film fans who want to upload their little 8mm digests (with no intention of generating any monetary profit) from 30+ years ago so their friends can enjoy a little nostalgia? Meanwhile, there are DVD's of these things circulating throughout ther web. BIG DEAL!! The movie has already been made - released - rereleased - rereleased - VHS - LaserDisc - DVD - BlueRay.... What are they so damned worked up about? They're 9-minute digests for crying out loud - Grow Up and chase something worthwhile!!! We mean nobody any harm financially or otherwise.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 12, 2012 03:41 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that some people are missing the point.
The studios ARE interested in prosecuting copyright misuse, be it DVD piracy or illegal use of Super 8 film.
Whether we agree with it or see the point in their interest is neither here nor there.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 12, 2012 03:52 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And the culprits of the copyright infringements have to pay damages and costs so the penalty has run into hundreds of thousands in the past. There is good money in some prosecutions and rightly so.

Not that I would ever want to violate anyone's copyrighted product in the first place but I certainly wouldn't want to risk losing everything I've worked my whole life for.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted March 13, 2012 04:47 AM      Profile for Chris Fries     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And so the debate rages on...

Brad,

I agree with you but John, John and Michael do have a valid point. I am posting video of films that I did not make. Each time I upload a digest, I am, as Mr. Clancy said some time ago, playing with fire.

That said, I have been doing this for about a year now. In that time, out of the many films I posted, I have have ten films that were blocked worldwide. The latest casualty is the 2x400 "JAWS". After nearly six months on Youtube I guess someone at Universal finally saw it was there and pulled it. Yet my 200' of the same film remains untouched and unnoticed. Was it just random checking that it was removed? Why did they not look at the rest of my videos? If they really cared about their films, why did Universal not remove "Jaws 2", "1941", "Airport", "Airport 77", "Earthquake", "The Hindenburg", "The Sting", "Psycho", "The Birds", "Animal House", "The Incredible Shrinking Woman" and my they-didn't-make-one-so-I-did digest of "Rollercoaster"? Most of these don't even have a "Matched Third Party Content". And for all the films that did get blocked, only one, "Once Upon A Time...", resulted in a strike.

And as for Disney, Mr. Clancy has said many times that they take pirating very seriously. If this is so, then why have none of my Disney digests ever been removed? Why can anyone go to Youtube and watch nearly every full-length animated Disney film ever made? In multiple languages? Films that have been up there for months and sometimes years?

None of it makes any sense.

So, I suppose the real question here is weather I continue to post film digests or pull them all and just use Youtube for personal videos.

As I stated before, I would like to continue posting as long as I can. I suppose if I get any more strikes, they may all go away.

What do all of you think? Would you like to see more digests? With, as suggested, the possible risk of me losing my Youtube account or worse? Or should I stop completely and never post another digest again? I will say that I have many subscribers who would be quite upset with the latter.

Here is my latest digest while you think about it.

Walt Disney's 17th animated classic from 1961, "101 Dalmatians".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj5uKwt4Sa4

Enjoy!

--------------------
There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3083
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 13, 2012 05:14 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I suppose if I get any more strikes, they may all go away.
To cut straight to the point, Chris - what if you don't get any more "strikes"? What if the next thing you receive is notice of prosecution?

quote:
None of it makes any sense.
Whether or not it makes sense is not important.

The bottom line - uploading the digests is illegal. If you do it you are at risk of prosecution. End of story.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted March 13, 2012 07:43 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,I'm afraid Michael is right.These people are not in any way,
shape or form interested in your hobby,but they are interested
in protecting what is theirs.THEFT IS THEFT and that is what they
see this as.A young man has been extradicted to the US to face
the very same charges,and his site was only a sign post to other
sites much the same as Google does,but they've pounced on this
kid to make no doubt an example.Where they get the idea that the US rule the internet beats me,but as long as the UK has
Prime Ministers that grovel to the powers that be in America
I'm afraid this state of affairs will continue.If I were you Chris
FOR CHRIST SAKE PACK IT IN!Before they come to take you to
jail,These people have the powers to confiscate, never mind blocking channels etc.You're going to get yourself in serious
trouble son and for what? IF people want to know about this hobby,then let them find out for themselves,you are not a
public service,and I don't see the point of putting yourself and
your Home in harms way,these are professionals and would take
delight in taking you apart.So please take on board what I've
said.They view these things very abstract and not always in a
clear cut straight forward, rational way you or I would.They are
lawyers,where once robbers had cudgels & knives,they have
been swopped for cell phones and desks,don't give them the
pleasure.By the way our Prime Minister is visiting the White House,how many films do you want to keep him.

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1158
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2012 12:17 AM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris, I would never want to see you put yourself in harm's way. As much as I enjoy the uploads you've provided and totally disagree with the attack tactics these studios would use when we're not looking to make 10 cents from any of this - if continuing to upload digests puts you at any risk of financial liability then, by all means, remove them and save yourself from any potential aggravation. It is a shame, though. Nothing you've done thus far was done with any intent to gain monetarily, but simply acts of kindness in an effort to provide some innocent pleasure to a group of movie buffs. Just for the record though.... Who's thieving anything?! These digests that we own were legitimately paid for and the studio already got their piece of the action as it were when they sold the rights to the film vendor to duplicate and sell these digests via mail order and in retail shops worldwide. If I show these films to a group of friends at my home or at a senior citizens' center does that constitute a copyright infringement because technically it could be deemed a public exhibition? If I don't charge admission and I don't advertise it am I breaking the law, as well?

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 3936
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted March 14, 2012 03:33 AM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting comments, just read the back of an old MGM digest "Anchor Aweigh"

It says

This is a copyrighted motion film which may only be licensed for private, non-commercial home movie use. All other rights, privileges and licenses including, but not limited to television, theatrical and commercial rights are expressly reserved.

I am afraid that pretty much sums it up "legal wise" [Roll Eyes]

However [Smile] as far as putting on a film show thats not at home, I would still do it, providing you dont charge at the door, but if some folk just happen to donate for petrol etc, "that type of thing" [Wink] then go for it [Smile] .

We all break copyright laws sometime, taping from TV...CD..even of old LP records, its all by rights illegal. The problem with the "internet" is that its out there for everyone to see and that can make things it a bit tricky.

I once put on a film show for a group and let it slip, that by doing this it was probably "illegal" to a elderly lady......she looked at me and said, it might be... but we all enjoyed it. [Big Grin]

Graham.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2012 03:54 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You should have taken my advice ages ago Mr. Fries and made the YouTube posts visible only to those that had the link. Then people from here could take a look and hardly anyone else - you probably would have got away with that.

I think you've got carried away with people saying how wonderful it is to see these videos. Don't be fooled by this encouragement by people who are taking no risks themselves.

This has all rather put me on edge because I don't wish to see you get in hot water. I've warned you several times and now thankfully others are offering the same advice. Please cease what you are doing and remove the illegal items there's a good chap.

Having said that, if there is a big court case over this and it makes it into the news then you could give the film collecting hobby a big advert.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted March 14, 2012 04:32 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to be the "deviils advocate",and say that if you screen
these things publically,for whatever reason,electronically or
otherwise,you are infringing their copyright.It does say that
on containers for the film and usually there is a threat or warning
on the film proper.Now you have to be potentially stupid or
extremely foolhardy to flout that warning,it wasn't put there for
laughs.That is why all airline prints were returned after use, was
either to be stored or destroyed,either way,we aren't supposed
to have them no rights have been given.The package movies
you own don't give you the right to show them where you will
it does say that on the box.In the UK showing films publically
requires you to have an exhibitors licence,or you are breaking the law.No doubt Brad, you own various music recordings,but
that doesn't give you the right to play them publically.I realise
in some respects that it is a "King Canute" law,meaning one that would be difficult to enforce,but give these people a loophole and that is all they need. To be honest I don't know
what Chris is trying to achive by putting himself on a limb as
actually he is doing the hobby a disservice by showing red
prints et al flickering images where excuses have to be made for the poor image on show,and that is not presenting the hobby at it's best and to top it off on a small computer screen.So my
advice Chris would be this, TAKE ALL THOSE FILMS OFF THE SITE NOW,NOT TOMORROW BUT NOW.The people who are probably writing out your summons now will be using all the
warnings you've been given on this forum as ammunition in
a court of law,and so removing any plea of ignorance.We don't
want to know of the next bloody digest you're going to put up
call it a day and try to keep whats yours before it becomes theirs. The simple annomaly is if you walk into a dept. store
and pick up some paltry item worth ten cents and put it in
your pocket without payment,that same store will prosicute you
even though they are a multi million $ firm,you have taken from
them and you must pay and i've got to say when it comes down
to money in America.there are people that would put Shylock
to shame,lawyers take no prisoners,i can't put it simpler than
that Chris people like John,Michael,Graham,myself and some
others are only trying to protect you.I have 17 years of experience protecting people as a Union rep so I have some idea on how these people think.Please take them off air and just
use "You Tube" for your own stuff.YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2012 03:29 PM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the above post is a perfect summary. I thought of something else after my post this morning which should help bring it home:

Putting a video on YouTube is the same in law as broadcasting on television. Actually, that is exactly what you are doing so we all need to be really careful what we put up there. Just because the impression the web gives is that you are posting something for your mates does not make it so in the eyes of the law.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted March 14, 2012 03:55 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
John,we've all tried to help Chris,but if he doesn't want it,then I'm
afraid there isn't a lot we can do.The pitfalls were pointed out by
your goodself and others including myself, it's now up to Chris.
Advice can only be of use if it's taken and the way things are starting to pick up speed,I really feel helpless, but theres nothing
we can do,it's up to him.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted March 15, 2012 02:02 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris,I came on strong and I put that down to my builders
background and it isn't my intention to hurt or offend anyone
and if I have, I apologise.Its just when you see a hazard,it's
difficult not to raise the alarm and point it out.The last thing
anyone on this forum wants to see is one of its number falling
foul of the law and into lawyers,solicitors,barristers hands call
them what you will,but they all have one thing in common, and
that is to hurt people financially or punitively and I hope that
can be avoided.We all have your best interests at heart and I
am sorry if I have caused offence.

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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted March 16, 2012 10:12 AM      Profile for Chris Fries     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I want to thank everyone for their support and advice.

Chris

[ August 23, 2013, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Chris Fries ]

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There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted August 23, 2013 02:00 PM      Profile for Chris Fries     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello everybody,

I've been away but now I'm back.

I have decided to post digests on YouTube again.

The legality of doing so has been debated to death. I'm sure the debate will continue. That's fine.

If any video gets flagged for a copyright violation (music or image) it will be removed.

As before, these videos are for educational purposes only. They are for anyone who wants to see a digest they have never seen or one they no longer have and would like to see again. Perhaps they own it but don't feel like setting up their projector. Maybe they need the soundtrack if it's damaged.

The quality is not perfect. I do not have telecine equipment. They are what they are. If you love them, great. If you hate them, great.

The first video is one my most favorite digests. The great MGM classic from 1976. Oscar-winner for best visual effects. It also features a quick nude shot of Jenny Agutter. [Smile]

"Logan's Run"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq9oGlR2xGg

There is a YouTuber called Savage Cinema. They put together a playlist called "All Killer No Filler - Super 8 Digests". This collection has a very nice transfer of "ALIEN" from TimelessMoments and many Castle Films digests from someone called 2reelers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aD7aAe9X4M&list=PLAD6AB0F033F5B17E

Enjoy!

--------------------
There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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Joe McAllister
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 177
From: London England
Registered: May 2007


 - posted August 23, 2013 02:32 PM      Profile for Joe McAllister   Email Joe McAllister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unlike the posting of full features uploading excerpts trailers etc is not a clear cut breech of copyright. I remember seeing a review of a DVD made up of transfers of the castle universal horror films which are apparently "public domain" in the US at least, this was when the full length originals were still being claimed as copyright. This was because the short version was classed as a seperate work. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised to discover that other 8mm digests are also non copyright as in the case of trailers. Reviewing the extract for content or quality may also bring the extract into the area of "fair use" which allows the use of extracts for criticism. As channel 4 in England did when they broadcast a programme about "Clockwork Orange" despite Kubrick claiming it would be contravening his copyright.
It also doesn't surprise me that the owners of the original versions would be upset even if they had no legal basis to complain.

--------------------
Always interested in privately produced amateur and home movies.

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 3936
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted August 23, 2013 04:56 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dont forget... Farrah Fawcett [Big Grin]

I bought "Logan's Run" when it was first released, but sold it just over 30 years ago [Frown] ...

Apart from a bit of fade, your you-tube video of it looks pretty good. Considering they had to edit the feature down to almost 18 minutes the editor did a good job.

Watching it again certainly brought back memories [Smile]

Graham.

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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted August 23, 2013 06:24 PM      Profile for Chris Fries     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Glad you enjoyed it, Graham.

Yes, I think it's a good edit. Most of the MGM's are. One of my favorite edits is the COMA digest. I may post that soon.

'Til then....

"If you've only seen it once, you haven't seen it at all."

The Poseidon Adventure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2YD4CqTPNQ

One of the first digests I purchased in 1985. I got it for $3. My library sold all of their 8mm films. I was the only one still borrowing them. VHS video took over the A/V dept.

Of the three copies I have, this first is the best. It's a bit beat up but it's the only one that still has good color.

--------------------
There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1374
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted August 27, 2013 11:46 AM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Chris-

Thanks for the uploads. Its fun to reminisce. Some I still have and enjoy, and others I've wanted to see, but never had opportunity.

So many of these movies are on YouTube already in full length, HD. It would be amazing to see a studio feel that they are being "ripped-off" by someone putting an old weather-beaten 10 minute digest up. I don't see it. Like in anything, its always good to be careful. I probably wouldn't put Derann's full-length Star Wars in scope [Wink] .

P.S.- Someone's putting "remade-digests", from digital source, on YouTube. The quality is good, but the effect just isn't the same. It somehow loses some of the nestalgia. I like the way you've been presenting them- straight from film, complete with fade & splices. Honestly, its just more fun to watch these digests like that!

James.

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1158
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 27, 2013 03:14 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I love watching these. Saves on the projector bulb when I just want to pass 30 minutes or so. No assembly required, either. Chris, there are so many full length movies out there on Y/T and other similar sites in parts (part 1, part 2, etc.) that I don't know why anyone would take exception to a digest. You're not charging admission and Y/T isn't paying you so there's no finacial benefit for you in any way. I would think they're more apt to go after serious bootleggers and not someone putting several minutes of a movie on the web. Otherwise they may as well shut down YouTube and DailyMotion and all the other sites that people upload studio-made stuff on. Thanks for posting the digests. Very enjoyable.

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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted August 27, 2013 04:01 PM      Profile for Chris Fries     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks James & Brad.

[ August 29, 2013, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Chris Fries ]

--------------------
There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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