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Author
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Topic: what to do with red prints?
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Timothy Ramzyk
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 220
From: Milwaukee,WI,USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted January 30, 2013 05:33 PM
I've been to drive-in film festivals that show both new and vintage horror films from the 60's and 70's. The vintage prints are kind of nostalgic for me, but people definitely react to the difference. Some comment that it looks bad, and I've overheard others say, "that's how all those old movies look."
My guess is those folks don't watch movies of that age on a regular basis, or they'd know they don't have to look that way.
The most troubling theatrical experience is the screening of 35mm prints with replacement footage on low-fade or vice-verse.
I was at a screening of THE RAVEN, and overall the print was getting pretty warm,but the audience settled into it. Then "click" five minutes of low-fade with a full spectrum of color that looked like it was shot yesterday, then back to red. After a couple teases like that, I felt it was almost worse than just seeing the only the faded color.
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted January 30, 2013 06:00 PM
Time to bin them.
There was a time you could show red prints to an audience, even friends and family, and they would accept it if the film content was decent, but these days it is just an embarrassment.
I have nothing but love and nostagia for film, but if it is to be taken seriously, we have to present only the best prints to our "unsuspecting" audiences.
I used to sit through terrible prints and love every minute because it was "film". Now, I just think, ah to heck with it...is there a decent Blu-ray or DVD version of this?
Usually there is, often really obscure titles, and with all the restoration work lavished upon many titles, suffering a knackered old film print is just ridiculous.
But only because, I think, digital projection is finally comparable to film, if you have the right gear...
I'd never give up my film collection, projectors, etc.
I still enjoy the odd private screening of some fading treasures. But the bad ones, red / vinegar, etc. are past their sell-by date and time for retirement.
It is difficult and I have struggled emotionally, but some of my 16mm prints have gone in the bin... ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted January 31, 2013 04:08 AM
Adrian, I'd taken the prints to Blackpool with no interest. Even at give away prices.
To be honest, for the time involved and the cost of shipping, ebay wasn't really an option.
They weren't immaculate prints anyway, despite the fade, so I took the decision as they took up a lot of room.
I did once sell a red copy of "Tales of Terror" at Blackpool, and I seem to recall when I brought the subject up here, there was a lot of cynical ridicule for even thinking about selling faded prints, even when being totally honest...so I just gave up on passing them on.
For example, why would you want to sit through a splicey, pan and scan, faded, scratched version of "The Illustrated Man", when you can see the scope version in full colour with a decent video projector.
Like I said, I love film, but there are sensible limits me thinks. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I currently have a slightly faded print of "Santa Claus Conquers the Martians"; one of the worst films ever made and hilariously entertaining as a result.
I really don't to see it go, but it stinks of vinegar and so is bagged up on its own.
What do I do with it?? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Timothy Ramzyk
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 220
From: Milwaukee,WI,USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted January 31, 2013 02:35 PM
quote:
I also have film that is "too red". I'll use a filter rather that watch something that is completely faded. I don't mind. Sometimes I get interesting results. Like this copy of the U8 400' "Phantom of the Opera" with Claude Rains.
That works to a degree, and is preferable to bright red, but the only trade-off is cyan whites and lighter colors. That's the problem with filtering, it's a blanket adjustment.
When I worked in a pre-digital photo-lab doing color correction of faded prints and slides, that was problem. How do you correct one color without throwing the rest off? If the object was primarily people, we corrected for flesh-tones (yellow/green filters), if it was landscapes, we went for foliage and sky (cyan filters).
If people had a fortune to spend, we'd mask areas and filter different parts of the same image with different filters, using multiple exposures.
Maybe a filter that was cyan toward the outside and greenish toward the center would be ideal?
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Timothy Ramzyk
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 220
From: Milwaukee,WI,USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted January 31, 2013 04:40 PM
quote:
Then, how is film colorized? To account for flesh-tones, as example, they are rarely on target
Well, that's a whole different ball of wax, and a digital one at that. They start with a B/W film that has all the visual information intact, then make everybody look embalmed.
Seriously though, the problem with a red/faded print isn't that the colors other than red have transformed, they've actually vanished, and taken details they defined with them.
I don't know of any "analog" chemical or blanket treatment to get lost color and detail back once its gone. If there were it would probably be so expensive that you'd be better off having a fresh print made.
Actually that brings me to another question. Theatrical 35mm prints have been mastered from digital files for quite some time now. Is it possible to strike an 8mm print from a HD digital source?
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