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Author Topic: Sanity clause.
David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted March 09, 2017 12:20 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No Mike give to someone who will enjoy and appreciate it
more than me.

However I would be very happy if you bought me Abel Gance's
NAPOLEON fully restored set on Blu-Ray for Christmas. [Wink] [Wink] [Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4829
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 09, 2017 12:43 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is a good subject, i can see both sides of the debate here,
I fully agree with David about the cost of stuff,
I also agree with many that a film is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
I was just looking on flea bay at a couple of Derann titles beeing sold by P**** takers.
Lets have a look and add it up shall we,
Full feature the time machine Derann copy £824 +43 postage
Mary poppins £477
Singing in the rain £412
Hunchback of Notre Dame £477
All reasonably good titles, but if you bought them all, thats just 4, yes 4 movies, and it will cost you £2190. No one will convince me this is a ridiculous amount of money to pay for a few titles & i bet most or all of them have some kind of light lines from time to time.
Sorry folks but tjis is where David is coming from, (i think

[Big Grin] ) & i have to agree with him. You all know what titles i and many others would like but if it means paying in excess of £400-£500 for it i will use the digital format. Whilst to a degree it is supply & Demand this sort of P*** taking pricing is what i use to groan about a lot in the early ebay days after Derann demise, i also said it will price people out of the hobby and will almost certainly put any new comers off. If i was thinking of going into this hobby for the first time i would be laughing at these prices. [Wink]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 09, 2017 01:16 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Luckily Tom, you were in it from the good ole days when supply was meeting or exceeding demand.

Now if you want a first run print in tip top condition with no lines whatsoever like what I watched this lunchtime, then I'm afraid you simply have to pay handsomely for the privilege.

There's plenty of people I've found in life, that seem to know the price of everything, but the value of nothing.
It is only the people that truly value these items that ever need worry themselves about these current prices as it is likely that it only will ever be them that ever pay these amounts.

Ironically, what I've equally found, is for those people that are prepared to meet today's asking prices for the very best things available still, they don't really tend to care too much about the price, just the condition of the item.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4829
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted March 09, 2017 04:14 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
100% [Wink]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5465
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 09, 2017 04:16 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I am not losing the point of this discussion, there are three issues are being discussed (cmiiw):

1. Today's price of films
2. Collector's willingness to spend money for the films
3. Type of films being purchased.

Allow me to express my view:

1. The material cost, inflation rate, and rarity aspect are the main things to hike the price.The demise of Derann is contributing to the traditonal theory above. Collectors are now worried that today is the last chance.

Moral of story: What you pay in 1980 will not be the same in 2017.

2. Collecting is a type of hobby. Hobby is supposed to make people happy. The happiness can come from any sources. With $0 we can still be happy e.g seing kids are obeying our rules. But $1000 cannot always make us happy when we are having high expection in this live. Spending $500 for a film may be high for someone, but on the other hand there are plenty people seing that is just peanut.

- My lawyer charges me $150/hour and he has 8 hours everyday. So you can guess how much he earns a month
- A deposit interest in my country is 8%/annum, this means if somebody is inherited from his/her anchestor a sum of $1 million and put it into the bank, he/she will earn $80,000/year or $219/day without need to work.

It is now not wondering someone is paying $2000 for a bottle of wine or spending $5000 for a 8 days cruise.

Moral of the story: There are plenty rich people out there but the most important are they happy or not?

3. Ones can enjoy coffee with sugar but there are bunch of people drink just plain coffee. Hey... that is coffee, there are people don't like coffee but prefer tea, ..... I like milk by the way. Ah...not a big deal, as long as coffee, tea and milk make us happy.

Moral of story: everyone has his/her own taste. We cannot put our feet on somebody's else shoes. Don't blame!

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 09, 2017 04:25 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I like PG Tips Winbert, with 2 spoons of Canderel. [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted March 13, 2017 04:59 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well then ... £ 1059.78p for a print of SPEED on Super 8mm film.
from ebay.

I am sticking with my Sanity Clause ! [Wink] [Wink] [Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10187
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted March 13, 2017 12:16 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
" Ha ha ha! You Canna fool me! There is no Sanity Clause!"

Spoken by the very wise Chico Marx! [Big Grin]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted March 13, 2017 02:01 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although, there ARE always cheaper prices on things. You don't have to pay these prices. I have purchased a perfectly good print of Singin In The Rain for £130 in the last year. But I do search several of the continental eBays. I have never paid more than £350 for a single print and never would. If nobody was prepared to pay these high prices then prices would come down.

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Nigel Higgins
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 539
From: Saffron walden.united kingdom
Registered: Jun 2014


 - posted March 13, 2017 02:53 PM      Profile for Nigel Higgins   Email Nigel Higgins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well if people want to pay £1019 pounds for a star wars super 8mm film i personaly think they are totaly mad its not even that rare as derann sold a few hundred of them at the time ,i know some are richer than others but come on its just greed with the sellers £400 is a max price for this surely ,this is why i dont collect 8mm anymore its just gone mad ,p.s if i ever stubble on that film i will sell to the first person with £400 .

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted March 13, 2017 03:36 PM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Nigel MAD being the operative word here.

Even if they can and are willing to pay over the top prices
I think they are insane and are in need of a Sanity Clause.

I mean its only 8mm film after all...Come on get real ! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 13, 2017 06:05 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Nigel, I promise you, based on your words there,you won't ever stumble upon a decent early Derann print of Star Wars!

The £400 is here and waiting mate, but I promise you,.. it will simply never ever happen. The time has been and gone!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2017 06:31 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow..that much for "Speed"? Now for me...that is over the top!
And I own "Speed".
I guess now is the time to sell.
I won't but if you are thinking about it now is the time.
That is insane. At this rate..I'll be priced out of the hobby soon.
I wonder if its a bunch of new collectors who just won the Lotto?
Or maybe they are buyers who only collect and do not screen anything?
I remember a buyer who shall be called F.A. When he burst upon the scene he bought everything and anything related to Elmo and he drove up the market like crazy.
He outbid everyone on everything. 1.0 lens sold for $550 +. Great for the seller but really bad for the market. But-he didn't know anything really about Super 8 but he had cash to burn. When he purchased something off you he wanted it sent overnight Express no matter what the cost. He would say, "I don't care about the cost. Send it and give me the bill". I wonder if these buyers are the same type of "collector"?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 13, 2017 06:47 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I have Speed also as you probably know Alan, and while I agree, it's not the best of the best 90's films in the world, it's one I love and cherish.

I rate it as highly repeatedly and watchable as any Star Wars or any of the others from this same era.
Therefore if someone wants to spend a grand on SW, then I'd certainly advocate this film could well be worth a similar amount in my book.

Not that any of this matters to me, as I won't ever be selling anything I've been lucky enough to collect this time around.

It's all dead money to me, but highly satisfying expenditure nevertheless. [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 504
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016


 - posted March 13, 2017 07:37 PM      Profile for Will Trenfield   Email Will Trenfield   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David Hardy mentioned "Napolean" on the 1st posting on this page. This a link to YouTube showing the BFI's trailer for their restored version. Jaw-dropping....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6504eRh5h6M

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5465
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2017 07:57 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What may happen now, that those films are collected by rich men who don't really bother with super 8mm. They bought just for the sake to own it. There will be a limit, when finally the trend will slow down and the price will drop. This is something we see often in the stock market. If I were a stockbrokers, and you were the investor, I would susggest to sell your stocks now.

I knew some members here are actually investing their money on films. I knew somone who owns 3 copies of the same title. This is the math:

If that print was purchased in 2001 where the price was about £345 for a Speed (colur and sound), this means after 16 years (2017) the actual cost after inflation is: £533.81, according to this Inflation calculator rate. So something is sold below that amount does not make any sense.

Now investing must also calculate the interest and profit for taking the property stored/deposited. The interest rate will be around 8%/annum. It is about £30/year, so after 16 years it will be £1181.95 (flat interest rate).

This is only for brand new prints that never been run on projectors. So if you have this kind of print, you must sell above £1181.95 for a Speed print. If you sell below that price this means you are investing for nothing.

It is different case for a second hand print. So if it sold for about £533.81 you are even. You enjoy your movie for several screening and got your money back in full amount. Now, if you sell more than that...You are lucky!

Think about that! [Wink]

For referrence:

Derann List for Brand new prints 2001

Price Conversion code in 2001

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Winbert

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 3976
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted March 13, 2017 11:19 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I dont think its "mad" for people to pay large sums of money for a film. If they can afford it thats fine by me.....each to there own.

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Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011


 - posted March 14, 2017 03:27 AM      Profile for Martin Davey   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Davey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I feel fortunate. I started collecting films in 1980 but I have never had the slightest interest whatsoever in buying features, instead just collecting shorts, trailers, L&H etc. I get my 'film projection' fix just by running those from the top of the pile down to the bottom, and when I reach the bottom I start again at the top. I have always viewed feature film buying risky, even when prices were normal. If I brought a new trailer and finding on projection it had a blue cast, negative sparkle and muddy sound, then I can write it off, but I was not ever prepared to buy a feature for a few £100 and have the same disappointment.
All my feature film watching now is via blu ray, projecting on a 7ft screen with 5.1 sound. It may be Star Wars, Gone with the Wind or Taxi Driver, but its cheap and is of a predictable technical quality, my cheapest purchase being 'The Artist' at £1.50.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 953
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted March 14, 2017 03:56 AM      Profile for David Hardy   Email David Hardy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Martin you have a sensible and common sense approach to
your movie viewing habits in 2017 and beyond. I have been collecting 8mm since 1966.

Winbert thanks for that information regarding inflation
calculation.

I am about to look at my Super 8mm feature collection
with a view to selling them off at greatly inflated prices
while the iron is still hot and they can still be projected.

I have one very valid and sane reason for doing this. [Smile]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 14, 2017 05:22 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
Cannot wait David! [Wink]

If you no longer want them, there's plenty out there that do, even with over inflated prices.

As for Winberts calculations,..please allow me to share the official collectors calculation..

Price of film divided by number of years left to screen it in equals pleasure price per annum,.. then multiplied by ten thousand = pleasure obtained total (measured in endorphins) by the average film collector! [Big Grin] [Wink]

[ March 14, 2017, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5867
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted March 14, 2017 05:54 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was talking only yesterday to a small time film dealer. He said that he put many Super 8 digests on eBay recently at "Buy It Now" prices of around £10 to £15 each. He was surprised that he didn't even sell one of them.
He went on an eBay search and discovered that the same titles were advertised, and being sold, at around £50 each. So he upped his prices.
He very quickly sold the lot !!

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Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 14, 2017 06:16 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
And if any dealer would therefore like to advertise later Derann features at cut down prices just to put a few off, rather than selling them all on ebay for top dollar,..

I'd be the one to buy them all so long as they are all in good Nick! 😂😂

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5465
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2017 08:10 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Collectors' calculation is based on his/her hobby. Therefore no matter £1000 for Speed or £10 for a TJ as long as it makes you happy, be with it.

Happiness cannot be measured with money.Therefor it is not a Sanity clause per thread subject.

It is a different case if he/she buy a print with the intention to re sale it in the future at a better price. You will be lost here.

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012


 - posted March 14, 2017 08:17 AM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
indeed I will be Winbert as I have no desire whatsoever to ever fleece anyone by selling at profit, a commodity I love.

I buy to collect, never to sell for profit!

When I have very very occasionally let items go that mean more to one particular decent collector than they do to myself, I've either sold them for what I've paid or less than I've paid if they are still complaining.

That's my nature Winbert, I like to share the excitement and love for the hobby personally, and couldn't give a flying you know what about money, only what I can buy with it!

The names Hunt,...

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 3976
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006


 - posted March 14, 2017 06:28 PM      Profile for Graham Ritchie   Email Graham Ritchie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sanity

Dictionary states....of sound mind: sensible: rational.

Well that must rule out anyone that collects films in this digital age....so sell all your precious films and buy the blu-ray instead [Smile] [Wink]

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