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» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer (Page 20)

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Author Topic: Review Wolverine Reels2Digital MovieMaker 8mm film digitizer
Nantawat Kittiwarakul
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Rajburana, Bangkok, Thailand
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted February 03, 2019 08:40 PM      Profile for Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Email Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From Stan Jelavic's post

quote:
Novatel chip is in a time lapse movie mode i.e no intermediate images saved.The chip takes stills at programmed intervals and creates the MP4 on a fly. The stills are not saved
So it's hardware compression process,which means camera's raw data goes directly into the encoding chip. Then forget forget about "raw" output hack,it weren't even exist right from the beginning. [Frown]

This literally seals of any of my consideration to this Wolverine unit. Wouldn't worth the investment.

--------------------
Just a lone collector from a faraway land...

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 04, 2019 08:53 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would not completely rule it out. Maybe they still cache the images somewhere in the memory. Would need a terminal access and do the memory dump. Then search for image headers. A few more crazy ideas:
- Grab images with a tube microscope and 45 deg mirror - have one and will try that.
- Grab tv video out... run through usb pc capture. Probably lo rez?

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Werner Ruotsalainen
Film Handler

Posts: 97
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Dec 2017


 - posted February 04, 2019 10:56 PM      Profile for Werner Ruotsalainen   Email Werner Ruotsalainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Grab tv video out... run through usb pc capture. Probably lo rez?
The built-in TV out is SD (Standard Definition); that is, far inferior to the 1440*1080 native resolution of the scanner. (Now, it's another question very few films have actually better luminance resolution as SD. Color resolution can certainly be better than that oif PAL / NTSC.)

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 07, 2019 07:19 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tried the microscope and it did not work. The issue is that it is not possible to get close enough to the film to get adequate magnification. Will try the TV out capture next.

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Roberto Paoli
Junior
Posts: 2
From: Trento, Italy
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 08, 2019 11:32 AM      Profile for Roberto Paoli   Email Roberto Paoli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 


[ February 08, 2019, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: Roberto Paoli ]

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Roberto Paoli
Junior
Posts: 2
From: Trento, Italy
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 08, 2019 11:33 AM      Profile for Roberto Paoli   Email Roberto Paoli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 


[ February 08, 2019, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Roberto Paoli ]

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 10, 2019 03:09 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The TV output will not work as expected. It is lower rez and it has text on it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bKBY7PMBpG6EJXo48
Oh well. Has anyone managed to get the terminal working with Wolverine? I saw some guys did it with the dash cams. With debug console it may be possible to get the memory dump and check for image content. Once we know where the frame resides in the memory it can be extracted. But at 115kbps uart and large frame and 0.5 sec time lapse between the frames this could be an issue. Would have to slow the machine down. Ouch.

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Nantawat Kittiwarakul
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Rajburana, Bangkok, Thailand
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted February 10, 2019 06:50 PM      Profile for Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Email Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Speaking about usb microscope...

Duh,forgot that I already have a usb webcam with removable lens (probably standard M12 lens) lying around somewhere in my attic. Will try that out someday. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Just a lone collector from a faraway land...

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 10, 2019 07:05 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Found the UART port. It is 38.4 kbps and I can see the data coming out on the Tx pin. Pin 2 from the left looking from the back of the unit. Assume pin 3 is Rx. Pin 1 ground and pin 4 +3.3V supply.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/d45DhopRHK5NkSxMA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/C3nV73fckoktFiUZ8
Have to get the uart to usb converter. They are pretty inexpensive.

Here is some more news. I managed to pull the complete transport with the gate and leds out of the unit. It is a bit fiddly but not too hard. Please don't try it by yourself before I put the instructions here. You risk breaking the led connector. Everything still works OK. So I plan to do my own arrangement of the components with my own better cam. I would still let their sw drive the stepper.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7qAp1ZVhPAD9Y6FfA

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 11, 2019 09:00 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Reinstalled the transport back in and pulled the camera and the display out so that I can get close to the gate with the Teslong microscope. Here is the comparison.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LqUEN5QEuD6CxL3P9
The microscope image is in the right hand side.

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted February 12, 2019 09:03 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan Simply amazing!
Carry on the great work, it is really nice to see someone going under the hood.
I will be following this with great interest.
Thanks for sharing the images and the research with us.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 12, 2019 08:23 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Mike. Doing it in the evening a bit. Supposed to be retired but went back to work. Still have a few hours in the evening to play with some cool stuff [Smile]

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted February 13, 2019 10:41 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's no point in being retired and having that test equipment sitting there doing nothing!

[Smile]

Please keep up the amazing work, I have thoughts of doing this to my Wolverine, but would probably try and use a better quality image sensor, I favour a Go Pro with some kind of macro lens but triggering it would be very difficult as there is no remote to speak of with a go pro.

Being retired is great, it means you can wipe the floor with wolverine data and show them how it should be done.

Thanks again for your tireless work in pulling the darned thing apart and finding out what the heck is going on inside.

Really good work there.....

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 169
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted February 13, 2019 05:12 PM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great job! I think it is possible to improve the quality a lot by just changing the optics of the camera without changing the sensor. it looks like it's M12 of f12mm. a m12 macro lens of 12mm (scorpion vision). just replace the original one which is a low end. What do you think ? [Smile]

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 13, 2019 11:39 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks again Mike and Kamel. The gopro is a possibility. Mechanically it should fit ok.. see the picture.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Uhxjh4i8F34PuQQQ6
I am a bit concerned changing the lens. Any recommendations?
The film gate is roughly 40mm from the Wolverine camera lens. Super8 film diag is 7mm and the gopro hero4 sensor is 11mm. So the lens focal length would have to be around 25mm.
I don't think the remote control is an issue. Could use the camera API and write your own python control code.

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Kamel Ikhlef
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 169
From: Arches, France
Registered: Oct 2018


 - posted February 14, 2019 05:04 AM      Profile for Kamel Ikhlef   Email Kamel Ikhlef   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
an M12 macro lens F12mm
http://www.scorpionvision.co.uk/Catalog/Machine-Vision-Lens/m12-lenses/near-field-far-field-m12-lenses/s-mount-12mm-f2-8-macro-lens

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted February 14, 2019 07:12 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stan You only went and put a Go Pro in there!

I have great faith in the GoPro as I spent 18 months doing a time lapse, the Go Pro and VirtualDub produced the most amazing results.
If I could apply that same quality to my 8mm scans, life would be perfect.

I know nothing about Python, except Monty Python [Smile]

I wouldn't know where to start to make a GoPro trigger in time with the gate of the scanner.

Thanks again for your brilliant research in to this.

Kamel great idea about changing the lens too

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 14, 2019 07:53 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Happy to hear that the gopro would be a good choice and that you are happy with it Mike. I put it there just to see if the film gate would align with the gopro so that I could use the unchanged transport. It looks doable. So here is what I am thinking:
- Replace gopro lens with the macro lens, possibly 25mm
- design a bracket for the gopro
- Replace Wolverine controller with RPI
- Python code controlling the camera and the stepper
- Interface board for the stepper + LEDs etc
Python became very popular programming language and I have been using it for almost 4 years on different projects.
Here is one example of the gopro python library.
https://goprohero.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

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Nantawat Kittiwarakul
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Rajburana, Bangkok, Thailand
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted February 15, 2019 04:16 AM      Profile for Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Email Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just got an idea. [Roll Eyes] Instead of remotely controlling the Gopro from external device...

Would it be simpler to set it in photo/still image mode,and hard-wired its shutter release switch to the mechanics. Then let it taking the still image sequence of each film frame (will be TONS of them of course). Pop the memory card out when done,copying them into pc. And finally stitch them back together via your NLE of choice,done. [Big Grin]

(Essentially,more or less the same in principle as most DIY Super8 scanners I had seen)

--------------------
Just a lone collector from a faraway land...

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Chichester, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 2017


 - posted February 15, 2019 09:55 AM      Profile for Mike Spice   Email Mike Spice   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I do wonder about timing the remote of a go pro over http and still get precise timing with the gate.

I would have thought it needs a camera that can be instantly triggered per frame, presumably using the same triggering circuit as the Wolverine uses....as Nantawat suggests

[ February 15, 2019, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Mike Spice ]

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Nantawat Kittiwarakul
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Rajburana, Bangkok, Thailand
Registered: Aug 2017


 - posted February 15, 2019 07:17 PM      Profile for Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Email Nantawat Kittiwarakul   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's EXACTLY my point.
Hardware wired-shutter release = simple,reliable,and least latency trigger operation. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Just a lone collector from a faraway land...

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 15, 2019 07:50 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is a valid concern but since the frame stays still for a few hundred ms it may be ok. Guess will have to try it. The gopro will have to be modified for macro lens. Possibly use the ribcage air?
The wolverine lens is a system of two coated lenses. Seems pretty good quality but would have to do the tests to be sure. Possibly test it with the gopro. I did some lens calculations before I pulled this one out and concluded that it must be a two lens system. Pretty simple basic geometry.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 15, 2019 08:13 PM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is a valid concern but since the frame stays still for a few hundred ms it may be ok. Guess will have to try it. The gopro will have to be modified for macro lens. Possibly use the ribcage air?
The wolverine lens is a system of two coated lenses. Seems pretty good quality but would have to do the tests to be sure. Possibly test it with the gopro. I did some lens calculations before I pulled this one out and concluded that it must be a two lens system. Pretty simple basic geometry.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 16, 2019 10:34 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding the gopro, Couldn't it be used in time lapse mode and triggered only once.

Did some more browsing and found some info on the optics used on the Wolverine.
Sensor:
https://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=AR0330
Lens very similar to this (it is 12mm):
https://www.lensation.de/product/B5M12028/

Just for the heck of it focused the lens to infinity and checked the scenery shot quality and was not very impressed. But then again it is a small cheap display. Will see if I can grab the image. BTW with the motor disconnected the sw goes into a preview mode and the buttons are not active. If we can get the frame then could run a lens quality test.

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Stan Jelavic
Master Film Handler

Posts: 253
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jan 2019


 - posted February 17, 2019 07:18 AM      Profile for Stan Jelavic   Email Stan Jelavic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding the gopro, Couldn't it be used in time lapse mode and triggered only once.

Did some more browsing and found some info on the optics used on the Wolverine.
Sensor:
https://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=AR0330
Lens very similar to this (it is 12mm):
https://www.lensation.de/product/B5M12028/

Just for the heck of it focused the lens to infinity and checked the scenery shot quality and was not very impressed. But then again it is a small cheap display. Will see if I can grab the image. BTW with the motor disconnected the sw goes into a preview mode and the buttons are not active. If we can get the frame then could run a lens quality test.

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