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» 8mm Forum   » 8mm equipment for sale/trade   » Elmo GS1200 Scratch parts (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Elmo GS1200 Scratch parts
Leon Norris
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted November 14, 2018 08:29 AM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To all who are on Evan side. Let's get it straight! I told Evan to send back ! For Exchange! That's the film slot and thread button! And I'll stand by wy word all parts are new! And I have not lost any business at all! I have been around a long time . A way Lot longer than Evan! To ALL the ones on Evans side . I'll Tell you only once! I DON'T need YOU! And that's the TRUTH! I have a Huge bit of Parts! My Elmo's will Run forever! Not YOURS!So Just keep on CRYING on Evans shoulder! Leon Norris

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Leon Norris
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted December 13, 2018 03:28 PM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Parts #1 and Parts #3 are all sold! They sold fast!
Thanks, Leon Norris.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1610
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted December 13, 2018 06:05 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't have a horse in this race except an ever-aging GS-1200, so this has nothing to do with "taking sides."

Seriously, Leon, your attitude of defensiveness and dismissal just really seems uncalled for. I don't care WHAT Elmo told you when you bought those part in 1999, some of those pieces are used, as proven by the dirt and wear marks on those photos. I would've said the same. YOU are an expert in Elmo's worn parts scratching, and should admit as much that a mistake was made, even if Elmo needs to take the blame.

Thank you for standing by your purchaser and offering an exchange. However, your credibility and honesty is on the line as well for asserting repeatedly that these obviously used parts are new.

Leon, I'm glad you've provided good service to me in the past, but I'd like to hope that might be the case in the future as well.

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Leon Norris
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted December 14, 2018 09:34 AM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill, The parts were sent back to me and I exchanged them! For your Information! Also with some extras. Like I said Elmo sent me all the green plastic parts in a BIG plastic bag! Things happen! Leon Norris.

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Leon Norris
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted December 15, 2018 08:32 AM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Parts#1-3-6 All are now Sold! Thanks Leon. Elmo scratch parts.

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Evan Samaras
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Queens, NY, USA
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted January 09, 2019 03:11 PM      Profile for Evan Samaras   Author's Homepage   Email Evan Samaras   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The parts were indeed replaced, and Leon did put in a couple of other parts. However, the parts replaced seem to be in similar condition with a similar wear pattern along the film path. I have been unable to take and post pictures with the holidays, but I will try to prioritize it for the week. Thank you again for the support everyone. Happy Holidays and a New Year to all!

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...When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the Earth...

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Leon Norris
Master Film Handler

Posts: 494
From: Elkins Park, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted January 10, 2019 06:37 AM      Profile for Leon Norris   Email Leon Norris   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Evan, Those parts are new! I even GAVE you some extras . I see your not satisfied! So let me see what more Doctored up pictures you want to show!

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Evan Samaras
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Queens, NY, USA
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted January 10, 2019 08:57 AM      Profile for Evan Samaras   Author's Homepage   Email Evan Samaras   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My word is only as good as yours to those who do not know us Leon. While I appreciate what I feel may have been your effort to make things right by sending extra parts, it does not change the fact that the items I originally ordered are not in the condition described, which was/is "NEW"

I only want to show what I received so others can judge if they want the items at the price point and condition at which you provided.

[ January 14, 2019, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: Evan Samaras ]

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...When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the Earth...

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Evan Samaras
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Queens, NY, USA
Registered: Oct 2015


 - posted January 14, 2019 08:44 PM      Profile for Evan Samaras   Author's Homepage   Email Evan Samaras   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
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...When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the Earth...

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Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted January 15, 2019 03:03 AM      Profile for Del Phillipson   Email Del Phillipson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
shocking, quite shocking [Frown]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5407
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 15, 2019 03:39 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They are probably new and unused but taken from the reject basket during their production.

They should be destroyed but some reject items succeded to escape because of bad employees and this might be the case.

My 2 cents though!

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Winbert

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3690
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted January 15, 2019 05:06 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My cousin works in a plastics car parts factory on a line and its so intense and pressured, and even then they keep reducing manning further.

They used to have 1 huge industrial skip for rejects that filled up in no time at all, but now need 4.

Some parts are £600 each, but any scuffs etc they are rejected. I can`t see the logic used by the managment there at all.

Best Mark.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4673
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 15, 2019 06:32 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
surely these would cause scratching? Is that why there called scratch parts? [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] (only jokin!!!)

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3055
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006


 - posted January 16, 2019 05:34 AM      Profile for Lee Mannering     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh you are awful but we love you [Smile]

As were are all showing our GS1200 guides here is the top entry guide for my old work horse. I'm probably wrong but I have a theory that my annual treatment of projector guides with a wipe of Silicone does help prevent film scratching and prolong the life of plastic guides.
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Had this particular GS a good few decades now and its been kind to film. Looking back to when the GS was introduced in 78 most seem to have survived if they have been loved and cared for and even my first little Eumig sound projector purchased in 1973 is just about good as new pretty amazing really.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4755
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 16, 2019 09:56 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lee, do you wipe your sound heads with silicone? It might help reduce wear on both the head and the mag stripe.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,

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Phil Murat
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Villeneuve St Georges, France
Registered: Dec 2015


 - posted January 16, 2019 11:47 AM      Profile for Phil Murat   Email Phil Murat   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello GS1200 fans,

From my side, this machine is "the machine" to get when a sound transfer has to be done.....
But I don't take the chance to oten play costy features considering green guides melt like "butter under the sun".....
Mines GS shows guide in pretty good condition at this time, but even as new, spurious rubbings are still there.
I prefer to avoid using silicon at this time.

So.... I had not planned to bring work on these machines as I more involved on Beaulieu 708 mainly, but now , I have started to draw something for a future sketch :
- No more "passive" guides to intake film (3 Green guides deleted).
- All Replaced by a single support plate showing 3 or 4 rollers (Brass or Stainless Steel with ball bearings*). Only return spring will be kept.
*Brass could be prefered to Stainless steel in case Stainless steel material is not compatible with magnetic strips vicinity.

- In a first time, "full autoload" function will be sacrified untill primary tests for the new configuration are satisfactory.
- Main plate can be "black anodized" for better appearance.
- Once new plate assembly is operating, a new secondary guide could be designed to restore "full autoload" function.

Film Path Guides , Steel Parts:
These parts on Beaulieu 708 , normaly last a long.
In the aim to reduce cams and claw wears, there is a possibility to apply a coating treatment called DLC (Diamond Like Carbon).
Unfortunately this treatment is very expensive 350 Euros for 4 guides.
But friction will be dramaticaly reduced as friction rate is 0,1 maximum for this coating. No more silicon to use and pull down spring strenght can be lowered to increase cams life.

Of course this treatment could be done on Elmo's steel guides as well....

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1032
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009


 - posted January 16, 2019 12:18 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't have an Elmo, but it amazes me that film collectors who highly value their films, would own and use a projector that has so many parts that could scratch their precious films.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4673
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted January 16, 2019 12:59 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You have to remember that many of these machines are 40 plus years old now and at that age wear will take its toll. I know There are projectors that are kinder to films than others but after 40 years of Elmo,(as well as Eumig), projectors i do stand by them. Any projector will scratch films if they are not looked after,serviced and worn parts replaced [Wink]
I wont forget the B & H filmosound we had that put a green line right up the centre of a brand new 40ft film i bought from Derann. It wasn't spotted until the second viewing.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted January 16, 2019 02:16 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My thoughts are exactly the same as Barry's, and that goes for the Elmo 16mm models as well.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted January 16, 2019 02:30 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Once these guides are modified with rollers they no longer wear or scratch - the worst culprit being the first feed guide which is available new from Van Eck and takes two minutes to fit.

The only folly I can see in using an Elmo GS1200 is by still using unmodified guides when all the fixes (use search you will find the threads going back years here) are there, tried and tested.

I also use 16mm Elmos (two 16CL's, two 16AL's and a 16AA) none of which have scratched films or had premature guide wear.
I bet that tale came from a Bell & Howell or Fumeo user.

Everyone to their own of course and as Tom rightly said a poorly maintained machine running worn parts of any brand will damage films not just Elmos.

Kevin

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Paul Browning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 974
From: West Midlands United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2011


 - posted January 16, 2019 02:55 PM      Profile for Paul Browning   Email Paul Browning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This sound interesting Phil, do you have photos of these new guides, as for your film claw coating, I would use cubic zirconia, which is artificial diamonds, very very hard wearing, you can machine this in intricate shapes, these could glued in place of the old claw, weighs very little, harder than any material your likely to spray on or find.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013


 - posted January 16, 2019 03:03 PM      Profile for Robert Crewdson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin, my thoughts on Elmo 16mm came after reading this thread; your comments on this. http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001922

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1032
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009


 - posted January 16, 2019 06:25 PM      Profile for Barry Fritz   Email Barry Fritz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom, all S8 projectors are 40 years or so old now. I have never heard of any that have as many parts that can scratch as the Elmo does. Leon's list has seven parts whose total cost is about $400.00! Yikes. Whatcha gonna do when those parts are gone? Is Van Eck making all of them? Further, I don't think those parts scratching are a maintenance issue. I think it is a design or cheap parts issue.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004


 - posted January 16, 2019 06:32 PM      Profile for Kevin Clark     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although they are Mark's observations from his experiences with 16CLs they do not match mine. If a 16CL is properly serviced, which would of course ensure all the rollers are running freely, roller rubbers are sound and not tacky, guides / gates in good condition and other film path adjustments are all correct, then the projector will not scratch films.

On my current 16CLs (and on others I've owned before) I replaced the old rubber roller surfaces (using silicon tubing that costs pennies) re-soldered the dry joints on the larger amplifier board connector (causes low or no sound) and fitted the take up clutch mod (supplied by the superb services of Richard Patchett) along with removing/ cleaning and lubing the rollers and sprocket guide shoes Mark mentions as you would when servicing any make of projector, I have had no problems ever with film marking, loop sizes, or poor running at all.

One concern I have is with the hard plastic film transport rollers that have appeared for sale for the 16CL which I feel could slip on the film and possibly also cause loop size issues as a result - those rollers provide a pinch / braking effect on the film by design and this will only work if the rollers have a rubber (or replacement silicon tubing) surface.

Barry - I can understand your concerns but honestly worldwide there are so many of us that happily use the GS1200 and once modified find there are no scratching problems that it is a non issue these days.

All the groundwork has been done - even if some of the roller / guide mods do need to be carried out by the user rather than purchased off the shelf that is surely part of the challenge and enjoyment of this hobby isn't it? The satisfaction of repairing something ourselves and making it better than the manufacturer ever did? And at a fraction of the cost you mention too.

Kevin.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3690
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted January 16, 2019 07:19 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree Kevin, as long as everything is freely rolling thats the key.

I`ve over the years had 2 Cl`s that had at some point been serviced I suspect and all the various rollers/ shafts greased up, and the grease/oil then dried and sort of locked them up a little.

I`m not sure why they don`t clear the film path though anyway as it would make more sense.

Still a superb 16mm machine, though not without its foibles.

Best Mark.

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