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Author Topic: Elmo 16-CL Sound Problem - FIXED
Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted June 27, 2012 11:29 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I finally got a 16mm sound reel to test on my Elmo 16-CL. Unfortunately the sound was very poor...very distorted...cutting out...and not very loud. I was wondering if anyone could assist me in troubleshooting this? Is there any adjustments I can make to the sound heads? Could it be the film itself? If a sound clip would be helpful I can provide one.

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 28, 2012 01:40 AM      Profile for Dino Everette   Email Dino Everette   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
first thing to test is going to be just dirt/dust in the path of the exciter lamp, as 9 times out of 10 that is the issue - I would not start readjusting anything with the sound head as you might open an unnecessary can of worms.....Also check to make sure that it is not just the speaker on the machine. If you have an external speaker check to see if there is a difference between the sound coming from the on board speaker and the external.

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted June 28, 2012 10:02 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My son bought his first projector, a CL off a forum member recently and it was poor sound then went totally after only an hour or two. Never mind the rest of its problems like worn front gate, poor rollers and a slipping belt.

Its actually in Berlin now as my german cousin who lives there got it picked up for my son via DHL so he did`nt have to pay and is getting it taken to the chaps house on one of the Band work vans shortly. So we trust the seller pays up and hopefully for the initial carriage to as he offered no redress for the issues, as he put it " he needed the money " !!!. My cousin was livid as he gets on well with Ryan.

The joints in the Elmo CL in the amp are prone to going, you do get warning signs for a good while like sound dipping etc so not very honest sellers usually know its an issue before they post it.

Hope its maybe something else though. Good luck.

Best Mark

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted June 28, 2012 02:17 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Dino for the reply...The small glass under the exciter lamp was a bit dirty. I cleaned it and the sound improved slightly. I then plugged in earphones to see if it was a speaker issue...but it is still badly distorted. Here is a sound recording of what was coming thru the earphones http://mystarstudios.com/audio/Elmo16-CL.wav

The projector otherwise is running well.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Antonis Galanakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 191
From: Europe Greece Athens
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted June 29, 2012 12:26 AM      Profile for Antonis Galanakis   Author's Homepage   Email Antonis Galanakis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To make a good start to resolve your sound problem, replace the exciter lamp with a new one. If you can buy a new General Electric exciter lamp.

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Leon Thomas Jones
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 108
From: United Kingdon
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted June 29, 2012 05:11 AM      Profile for Leon Thomas Jones   Email Leon Thomas Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi I am totally agreed with Antonis ,replace the exciter lamp with a new one.They are cheap around £5.00 .I had the same problem and changing the exciter lamp solved the sound issues .I hope that solve the problem.
Good luck
Leon

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted June 29, 2012 01:31 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Antonis and Leon...So the audio you were getting before you changed the lamp sounds similar to my sound clip?

I will order a new lamp and report back.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted June 30, 2012 10:02 AM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage   Email Richard C Patchett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings Janice
The lamp for sound is a BRK
They have 2 sizes a short glass and a long glass
On some of the 16CL's the long one will fit and work But the cover will not fit
More in detail if you need to know more
email me at
patchetts@ameritech.net

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 30, 2012 01:05 PM      Profile for Dino Everette   Email Dino Everette   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice, Richard is a projector magician, so make sure you email him.

--------------------
"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted June 30, 2012 02:02 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Richard for the heads up on the lamp size. Here is a photo of the exciter lamp currently installed. It's approximately 2" long. I'm guessing it's the long version.

 -

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted June 30, 2012 02:39 PM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage   Email Richard C Patchett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings
You have the Short version
The long version is 2.8
The filaments are the same vertical position
Really the only difference in lamp is the glass
Elmo said at one time on the older 16cl that some of the manufactures made the long ones to fit
I tryed to send pic of the two sizes its not working for me on the fourm
Email me and ill send pic of lamps
patchetts@ameritech.net
I just wanted to make sure that you get the right lamp
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted June 30, 2012 06:46 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I sent you an email Richard.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 10, 2012 10:49 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I replaced the exciter lamp...but it didn't improve the sound. When I raise the outer edge of the film the sound becomes louder and clearer. Here's a video of what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5FJlIcQc7s&feature=youtu.be

Any ideas?

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted July 11, 2012 08:31 AM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage   Email Richard C Patchett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings
3 things
1 The small roller rubber is bad
2 On the Larger rubber roller lossen the nut a little
3 The arm for the small roller is there play in it?
try raising the roller up insted of the film
cause lack of lube. dirty inside and there is a adjustment for that arm
RC

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 11, 2012 02:19 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard, I've added numbers to a photo to make sure I'm understanding the correct part(s) you are referring to.

 -

1) "The small roller rubber is bad". Is that the #3 roller?...Hmmm....These are all a new set of rollers I just installed. What do you mean by "bad"?

2)"On the Larger rubber roller lossen the nut a little". Is that the #1 roller?...I did this...no change.

3)"The arm for the small roller is there play in it?" Assuming this is referring to the #3 roller again...NO, no play. I tried just raising that roller instead of the film...but it pushed too tight against the fly-wheel roller and the film jammed and backed up.

4)Can you be more specific with "cause lack of lube". What specifically am I lubing? What type of lube?

5) Also "dirty inside"? Inside where?

6) Assuming you mean the arm to the #3 roller...where/how do I make the adjustment? What type of adjustment is needed? It appears if I bring that roller up any higher it presses too tightly against the fly-wheel roller.

Thanks for your help...with a little clarification, I'm sure I can work on fixing this problem.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 424
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted July 11, 2012 02:43 PM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage   Email Richard C Patchett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greeting Janice
Call me for a short
Then ill return your call if you dont mind
That way your number will not show here
248 583-1592 Changed Phone number 4 years its now
248-980-6488
RC

[ December 02, 2017, 04:34 AM: Message edited by: Richard C Patchett ]

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 11, 2012 09:09 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice chatting with you today Richard. It doesn't look like the rollers need adjustment, so I'm going to see if adjusting the sound eye (#5 in my photo) closer to the film helps. Turns out I don't have a hex screw driver or allen wrench to fit the tiny grub screw on the sound eye. I'll try and pick one up tomorrow and report back on the results.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 12, 2012 11:35 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I loosened the grub screw which allowed me to raise...lower...and turn the sound eye. Unfortunately it did nothing to improve the sound. Is there anything on the underside of the sound eye that may need cleaning?

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 16, 2012 12:05 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since I've gotten no further feedback...looks like I'm going to have to dig into the service manual and see if it has any clues to what I can do to fix this. [Frown] [Confused]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Richard Bock
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 239
From: El Cerrito,CA,USA
Registered: Jan 2010


 - posted July 19, 2012 10:48 PM      Profile for Richard Bock   Author's Homepage   Email Richard Bock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice, have you tried this forum. It's more geared toward 16mm.

http://16mmfilmtalk.com/index.php

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 19, 2012 11:53 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Richard...I'll wander over to their site and see what assistance they can provide. [Smile]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted July 22, 2012 10:31 AM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Janice, has the optic been rotated at all,as the scan of your
soundtrack must be read "horizontaly",where the light shining through the light slit must be parallel with the bottom of the
film frame and not on an oblique.The only other thing that springs to mind would be the receptor,and that I feel would require the
skills of a competant repairer.Can the optics be moved side to side
as I'm not familiar with the Elmo 16mm.It just strikes me strange
that if you're getting a signal through when you lift the film,then I would think something needs adjusting,namely
the optic lens.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 24, 2012 11:38 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Hugh for the feedback. My son is visiting me for a few days so I haven't had a chance to continue troubleshooting this problem. I did rotate the sound eye, which didn't seem to show any improvement. I'm a bit worried however in doing that I may have made the situation worse...but too late now. It may need calibration and I don't have anyway of doing that. I'll get back to looking at this in a couple days. Another mystery to pursue [Confused] [Frown]

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted July 24, 2012 08:16 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Janice, do you ever watch film? All your posts are regarding projector troubleshooting and 'projectors in movies'. Don't get me wrong, please, because your thread on an Elmo ST series was useful in getting my ST-1200 going.

Somebody please welcome me to the 16mm forum, this is my first post here.

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted July 24, 2012 08:59 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Akshay,Janice is a female Dr Who, a genius on the quite,and this
little problem with her machine I'm sure can be sorted out.
One of the "tricks" I did on my Elmo ST, was to view the little
slit through the lens and lock it off when its in the "horizontal"
then run a loop of film and by trial and error it is possible to
reposition the optic lens in the correct place.If you can get hold of a film strip for this purpose,so much the better,but if not Janice,
a bit of scrap or just run a spool of preferably noisy soundtrack.

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