8mm Forum: Dark Print, any helps with brighter lamp?

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Topic: Dark Print, any helps with brighter lamp?

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 30, 2009 12:56 AM

I suddenly lost my appetite to finish watching a movie with dark print. Especially if the dark prints apply to B/W movies which make even worst.

If I am using 100w bright projector's lamp now and change the projector with 150w lamp (or even 200w) at the same screen size, do you think any helps to watch this kind of print?

Secondly, although I found that the dark prints using the same stock with the other better prints, what make things like this? How can the lab did something really stupid to release this kind of quality?

cheers,

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

posted March 30, 2009 01:10 AM

It is not always the labs fault, it could be caused by the original source material. Could you post what film you are speaking of and who released it (such as Blackhawk, Derann, Thunderbird, unknown, etc). This way people could let you know if that is how ALL of the prints are or if you just have 'bad' print as you state.

The lamp could make a difference but it works hand in hand with the shutter and lens, so it is not a guarantee that it will get brighter but it probably will.

--------------------
"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 30, 2009 04:06 AM

I never got any wrong with Blackhawk print (is it my luck or Blackhwak is alway good?)

I was talking WC Fields "Circus Slicker" from Universal 8 (hard plastic library case).

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Winbert

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted March 31, 2009 06:08 PM

Blackhawk's Super 8 silent L&H "You're Darn Tootin'" is fairly dark in reel 1 (200') and OK for reel 2.

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

posted March 31, 2009 10:52 PM

Some prints are just very dark. I have the 5 reel Hell's Angels and it's quite dark. I tried to watch it on my Elmo ST 180-E which uses a 12v 100W bulb and it just wasn't happening... Later on I got an ST1200HD which uses a 15v 150w lamp and it looked better, but still dark. Now I've since burned out that old bulb and replaced it with an Osram Xenophot bulb which is 20% brighter than most modern bulbs and 30-40% brighter than the old original projector bulbs. If your projector takes a 12v 100W bulb you can't change it to a 150w bulb unless it's also 12v. There's none rated like that I know of. It all depends on what type of projector you have.

The best piece of advice I can offer is to get yourself an Osram Xenophot bulb for your projector. It will put out 20% more light. This is the #1 and cheapest thing you can do to boost your light output. If you have an f1.3 or higher lens you can try to replace it w/ an f1.1 or somewhat rare and far more expensive f1.0 lens. Take your lens out and make sure it's clean on both ends. What kind of screen are you using? is it pure bright white? If it's an older screen you might consider some screen paint to brighten it up. If you sit straight on to your screen and any off angle viewing is not important get a high gain screen. Many of these can be had cheap 2nd hand. Are you sitting in a pitch black room? You'd be surprised how much just tiny bit of ambient light can spoil a picture, especially w/ B&W film. Then of course is the obvious: Is the film clean? Most Elmos have a glass heat shield between the bulb and the gate. Some recommend removal of this heat shield which will increase the light output by about 5%. Have a try at any one or all of these and your dark prints will brighten right up.
Cheers,
James Stubbs
www.payoffyourhomenow.org
Save your home, mod that loan!

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted April 01, 2009 07:12 PM

Best advice I can give on dark prints is send them back to the cheeky seller who convieniently does,nt mention it.
Then get it on dvd, bung on the video projector, a little lighter, a little darker, more or less conrast and the same for colour, whatever looks best and how you like it.
I don`t know what it is about cine but a lot of people somehow tell themselves in order to sell a film its OK to miss out failing etc they were or would be dissapointed in themselves. Send it off to the poor buyer and hope they get away with it.
Such it is and always seems to have been so in film selling and so on.
Best Mark.

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James E. Stubbs
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 104
From: Portland, OR
Registered: Apr 2007

posted April 02, 2009 07:58 PM

Mark, the opinion of one to another as to the darkness or not of a print is highly subjective from one person to another. E.g. I find most people have the contrast and brightness on their TV's all whacked out and way too dark, while the owner of the TV of course thinks it's fine. I often think that films in the cinema are too dark. So obviously I'm more sensitive to films that may be dark. The bulb in the projector could be weak. The screen could be of poor quality, and a dozen other things that effect the projection of a film. My Hells Angels print was unwatchably dark on my ST180 w/ on old bulb, but looks fantastic on my ST1200HD w/ an Osram Xenophot. If after reasonable efforts to brighten things up.. THEN send it back!
Cheers,

--------------------
James E. Stubbs
Consultant, Vagabond, Traveler.

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

posted April 03, 2009 08:21 PM

My Circus Slicker is dark, too. I find that dark prints are few and far between, and it is not worth upgrading projectors just for these prints. But I can think of many other reasons for upgrading.
[Smile]

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted April 11, 2009 08:03 PM

Well I`ve just been shafted on a 400 L+ H I got, supposedly really sharp with great contrast so cine can still be just as fun as ever it seems.!!!
Of course its all down to perception isn`t is, his perception of my money magiced the print into a higher dimension.
What joy. £9.99 more would have got the 21 dvd set delivered. !!!
Best Mark.

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