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Author
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Topic: Value of Laurel and Hardy Films
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted June 29, 2015 01:04 PM
You are so right, Shorty.
I know that I have mentioned this before, but when I watch one of my DVD's of the Lads, lets say, "Big Business", it's a pretty good print they used and all, but I feel kind of at a distance to the material ...
but ohhhhh, when I run my super 8 print of the same title, film grain, occasional scratch and all, I really do feel like I'm back in that movie theater with the crowds, laughing right along with them.
Does anybody else get that feeling when screening they're prints?
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Joseph Randall
Master Film Handler
Posts: 437
From: Wyckoff, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2015
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posted June 29, 2015 03:37 PM
quote:
Film - It is the only form that shows the way it was, imperfections or not - Shorty
quote:
I know that I have mentioned this before, but when I watch one of my DVD's of the Lads, lets say, "Big Business", it's a pretty good print they used and all, but I feel kind of at a distance to the material ...
but ohhhhh, when I run my super 8 print of the same title, film grain, occasional scratch and all, I really do feel like I'm back in that movie theater with the crowds, laughing right along with them.
Does anybody else get that feeling when screening they're prints?
I couldn't agree more -- yes -- that's why we're all here on this forum.
I am, however, happy when there are home-video releases so non-celluloid collectors can be introduced to the boys.
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Timothy Brown
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Milwaukee, WI. USA
Registered: Nov 2005
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posted June 29, 2015 07:39 PM
Its' kind of interesting how all formats for delivering a movie more or less follow the same trajectory. The beginning where they have a lot of room to grow, the peak in terms of proliferation, then the decline. Oddly enough most reach there greatest degree of technical excellence in decline. My Super 8 prints from Derann toward the end of Super 8 production were quite possibly the most technically excellent in my collection, and the color filmstocks the most stable.
Likewise, as we see the decline on physical movie media on disks, we see a level of technical excellence that is leaps beyond the first DVDs, especially in the form of a well mastered HD Blu-ray when projected.
I'd say all DVDs of Laurel & Hardy's films for Hal Roach, prior to the Vivendi DVD set reflect the limits of early video mastering and compression. The source is good, but the end result mixed by today's standards. The RHI masters are now twenty plus year-old analog techlines, and they look decidedly "video-ish" by comparison, with general soft flatness lacking texture or range.
I certainly fell in love with L & H through my Super 8 prints, and those of my library. Most of my Blackhawk prints were quite nice, though missing their original titles.
There is no doubt in mind however that we live in an age where the art of film restoration is at an all time high, and that these restorations are revealing detail unseen since these films were first created. I don't quibble over things like the reel change marks, lines or speckles. It's the integrity of photography I'm most concerned about. That's why the prospect of what these UCLA restortions will reveal excites me so much.
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Pulp Novelties
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Timothy Ramzyk
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 220
From: Milwaukee,WI,USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted July 03, 2015 12:43 AM
quote:
What I don't quite understand is what happened with, or what is wrong with, the negatives/prints used to make the RHI video masters back in the '80s/'90s? Granted, the video technology was inferior to what we have today, but they obviously had fantastic film elements to work with.
Also curious who funds the HD transfers of those relatively obscure (non-L&H) titles that are shown on TCM?
Good question. I've heard rumors about Hallmark dumping negs because nitrate-film storage was never part of their agenda, and that they bought the Our Gang and L&H stuff more for merchandising than restoration and video release. Don't know how much of that is true.
Generally speaking all the major studios are working their way through their catalogs making HD masters for TV syndication packages and streaming/download use. When we're luck they issue a Blu-ray or license to third party to do so.
Major players like Warner and Universal own not only their own catalogs, but those they've absorbed over the years. Sadly their acquired holdings tend to be in a more compromised state. For instance Universal owns most pre-60's Paramount, and Warner owns titles produced by MGM and RKO. The older Paramount, and especially RKO stuff hasn't been getting a lot of HD transfers, because most would require major restoration and in some cases first generation originals no longer exist.
The exception is the MGM titles which were well cared for under Ted Turner's watch. The lion's share of what you see broadcast in HD on Turner are Warner Brothers and MGM titles that Warner has transferred. However, not all films shown on TCM HD are truly HD transfers, they are simply up-converted SD.
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The Metropolis 9-5 tinted print is the best on the gauge which sells for about £65 ish usually, runs for about 28 minutes.
It is also on Blu-Ray if discs are your bag at about 150 minutes and £12 looking rather splendid. Wait a bit and it will be on Ultra Blu-Ray before long.
The Collectors Club 8mm release is also worth having if you want a longer run than the 9-5 print. [Cool]
That 150 minute version is revelatory. I had previously only seen my Griggs Moviedrome Super 8, 100 minute print and the Kino 120 minute DVD. Truthfully, I wasn't sure a METROPOLIS that ran another half hour was going to be a better METROPOLIS, but the restored footage really had some interesting stuff in it. I was fortunate enough to see a 35mm screening with live orchestration (which never hurts).
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