8mm Forum: Standard 8 or Super 8 Two Tars -3 reeels

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Topic: Standard 8 or Super 8 Two Tars -3 reeels

Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted July 29, 2011 12:56 PM

I am looking for Two Tars, and mounted on 3X200 foot reels.

Michael

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
Registered: Jul 2008

posted July 29, 2011 02:08 PM

Aren't 2x 200 foot reels enough?

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted July 29, 2011 02:46 PM

I basically have all of the Laurel and Hardy films.

I have the sound version, and it's mounted on a 400' reel in an original box.

Now I'm looking for this variety on 3 x 200" reels.
There was on item on ebay last week, and I forgot to bid on it.

It's the novelty, and what collecting is to me.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 29, 2011 04:05 PM

wouldnt this be standard 8mm?

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted July 29, 2011 04:40 PM

Most definitely.

The one for sale last week, was standard 8 and in a different type of
Blackhawk Laurel and Hardy Box.
The faces were sketches of the boys. Stan is smiling, and Ollie seems to be
looking up and rolling his eyes.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 30, 2011 10:21 AM

I liked that box. Wish I could help you though. Good luck in your search.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted July 31, 2011 10:02 PM

Michael, I've never seen a vintage Blackhawk catalog or anything else that would settle the issue, but it seems to me that 3x200 is a mistake. "The Music Box" - yes, because the full theatrical version was 30 minutes. But even IMDB's listing for Two Tars doesn't support a three-reeler (21 min.) for Two Tars. And the two prints I'm familiar with, both Blackhawks, seemed quite complete at 21 minutes. So I'd be looking for 2x200 unless you know something we don't (pray tell).

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted July 31, 2011 11:29 PM

Bill,

Thanks for the IMBD link.

From the auction, It's the only two reeler that I know, that's a 3 reeler.

I hope that this link opens, of the auction that closed.
Notice the picture. Let me know if it does not display with the picture?

Two Tars Auction

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 01, 2011 05:42 AM

Notice that 2 of the reels are less than full, this all adds up to about twenty-odd minutes, constituting a 2-reeler - Nothing unusual - If I see another, will so notify, Fraternally Shorty

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted August 01, 2011 10:35 AM

My standard 8mm print fits snugly onto one reel as well, a full reel to be sure, but it fits.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted August 01, 2011 12:31 PM

I agree. The film is a two reeler.

I have a friend that has Two Tars in 16mm and strangely enough as a two reeler, the film has printed in sections that are labeled:

End of Reel, One,
End of Reel Two, and
End of Reel Three.

We tried to figure this out?

Shorty, William K. Everson (author, The Films of Laurel and Hardy) once told
Jack - Grand Sheik from the N.Y. Sons of the Desert Tent: it's the only two reeler that's labeled as a three reeler.

I relayed the auction link to Jack, and he said: at the time, I never understood what Bill meant?

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Joe Caruso
Film God

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From: USA
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posted August 01, 2011 01:12 PM

He told it to him, and he said it to you and I told it to what...we're all nuts!

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Panayotis A. Carayannis
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 969
From: Athens,Greece
Registered: Jul 2008

posted August 01, 2011 04:26 PM

I just remembered that many years ago,I bought a two reel comedy,that came in a box with 3x 200 reels,I vaguely remember it must have been a silent Little Rascals Blackhawk. It turned out that it included one part one and two part two reels!I sold the second part two to a friend and soon forgot about it,until now. So,this may be a similar case.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted August 01, 2011 09:03 PM

Panayotis,

It just proves, that anything can happen.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted August 02, 2011 02:10 PM

Michael, thanks for the link! Yep, as Joe said, the reels aren't full -- must be about 7 minutes apiece. Curious thing, perhaps the original studio cut was longer (hence 3 reels) but the release was trimmed? Who knows!

The Super 8 prints were both single 400' reels very full.

However, I've seen other Blackhawk std-8 prints follow the reel "layout" of the original 35mm theatrical prints, so looks like this one does too.

Can you imagine those 1920s projectionists making a changeover every 7-10 minutes? They certainly earned their keep.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted August 02, 2011 04:33 PM

I have a thought:

The 35mm industry standard, denotes a short film by footage. So is it possible that a very full 400' reel may qualify Two Tars to edge by and become a three reeler?

As a side note, Dick Bann the author of Laurel and Hardy (1975,) is also a film archivist. He recently stated that it was very painful to junk one of the two reels from the original camera negatives of the film From Soup to nuts, because it was decomposed beyond recognition.

UCLA, is now racing against time to archive the Laurel and Hardy film Library.

Laurel and Hardy Restoration at the UCLA Film Archive

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

posted August 04, 2011 06:52 PM

My theory about Blackhawk's 3 reel version of TWO TARS is that since it is probably the longest L&H silent(21 - 22 minutes at 24fps), the addition of the Blackhawk prologue pushed it over the edge of what could comfortably fit on 2 200 foot reels, of even 1 400 foot reel. (I believe I've seen the double 400 foot box of this on eBay a few times as well.) I've had several copies of this in 8mm, Super 8, and 16mm, but all were the restored version with original titles and no prologue. Each of these were mounted on a single reel. I've never gotten around to buying BH's original version of this, with all BH titles, both main and inter. I believe I asked about this version several years ago on this very forum, but no one had an answer.

TWO TARS was originally a 3 reeler, according to Everson, but was trimmed down before release. TMK, this extra footage is completely lost.

On a side note, BABES IN TOYLAND is listed as a 9 reeler by Everson, but it clocks in at 79 minutes. At the end of my copy, there is a Hal Roach card that says "end of reel 9". So I guess a reel doesn't necessarily have to be 10 minutes. So the average time of a BABES reel is just under 9 minutes.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 05, 2011 05:42 AM

I clocked TARS at 425', that's close

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted August 05, 2011 01:54 PM

I happen to have a couple of timings from Blackhawk L&H prints from speed-locked projection in my notes. "Our Wife" runs 20:48 (plus leaders, of course), "Them Thar Hills" 20:19. Now I'm curious to see if any original tail markings are left, or only the Blackhawk "1-end-1-end-1-end..." or whatever it is. Would it have been the end of reel 2? Or 3? I will have to look at a later time.

Michael, thank you for the fabulous link.

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

posted August 05, 2011 06:59 PM

Most L&H (and other Hal Roach) sound BH prints end with an original End of reel 1 or 2 or 3 or whatever for a few frames. Some even have a similar card in the leader. I ALWAYS leave the projection lamp on until I see that, but as soon as I see a BH "end" I turn it off.

With the 3 reelers, which BH put on 2 reels, you usually get to see and "end of reel 1" and "end of reel 3".

TOWED IN A HOLE always came on 2 reels -- I long ago mounted it on one and it fit comfortably without a hint of running over. When I first got it I wrote to BH asking why but they never replied.

I have an ANGORA LOVE on 2 200 foot reels, and each has an "end of" with the same background as the inter-titles -- a nice touch. BH usually used their own title for this (on silents) but not in that case.

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted August 10, 2011 12:11 PM

Here is what we're talking about:

Aren't those art-deco-style letters beautiful? And looks nothing like the occasional titles within the print.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted August 11, 2011 12:41 PM

Tony's input is true. The print that my friend has of Two Tars, includes
frames indicating - "Beginning of reel three." He too found it rare and has decided not to splice it out of the film.

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Larry Webb
Junior
Posts: 1
From: Knoxville, TN, USA
Registered: Oct 2019

posted October 30, 2019 01:19 PM

I know this is an ancient thread but I have the "Blackhawk" 8 mm 3 reel "two tars". I found it when I was cleaning out my mom's house. It is a movie I had when I was a kid.

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Larry

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted October 31, 2019 11:34 AM

I LOVE those original reel change bits and like many others, i don't splice them out as well as, well, it's history, and rarely seen history at that! [Smile]

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