8mm Forum: Condensed Features

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Topic: Condensed Features

Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011

posted May 10, 2014 08:01 AM

I recently got a 'scope print of "Hello, Dolly!".

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201080812416?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=ST RK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'm happy I can finally use my B&L Cinemascope lens but I'm puzzled about this film. It's not complete. It's missing five songs and several scenes. I knew that when I bought it. What I want to know is why? Why were 16mm features edited into extended digests? The seller says it is shorter because it's an airline print. In Cinemascope? I don't think so. Is it because shorter films were cheaper to buy or rent?

I've only seen one other film like this. I had a copy of "Mary Poppins" that was missing two songs. I'm sure there are other condensed features.

Does anyone know why? Was it just cost?

[ May 17, 2014, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Chris Fries ]

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There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted May 10, 2014 10:49 AM

There are many collectors who happily remove musical numbers from films and then sell them on minus the missing bits.

The missing bits? The collector makes up a large reel of them all joined together for viewing for a "musical evening".

Beware of this. Always double check when buying a 16mm musical.

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Maurice

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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011

posted May 10, 2014 11:31 AM

I know people have done that. It's horrible. Many of the films I borrowed from the library had missing scenes but I checked this print. There are no splices where the missing songs and scenes are. If someone were going to remove the songs, why not cut them all? Why cut "Just Leave Everything To Me", "Ribbons Down My Back", "Elegance", "Love is Only Love" , "It Only Takes A Moment" and part of the "Finale" but leave the rest?

The "Main Titles", "It Takes a Woman", "Put on Your Sunday Clothes", "Dancing", "Before the Parade Passes By", "Hello, Dolly!" and "So Long, Dearie" are all there with no edits.

I agree with your warning, Maurice. That's why I returned "Mary Poppins". It was listed as a complete feature. It was not. I did check it before I returned it. "Stay Awake", "I Love to Laugh" and several scenes were missing but, like "Hello, Dolly!", there were no splices.

Again, I knew "Dolly!" was condensed. I just want to know why films were sold or rented this way.

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There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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Gerald Santana
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1060
From: Cottage Grove OR
Registered: Dec 2010

posted May 10, 2014 12:30 PM

Hi Chris,

Some of the condensed versions of the features were shown in classrooms.

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http://lostandoutofprintfilms.blogspot.com/

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted May 10, 2014 07:49 PM

Chris, the main reason why there were digests of films is the economical. The companies who released films on 8, super 8, 9,5 or 16 had to pay for copyrights and it dependend on the lenght and if it was with sound or in color.

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Dominique

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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011

posted May 10, 2014 09:22 PM

Hi Gerald,

You're talking about digests like the Walt Disney Educational films or the 2x1600 "The Great Gatsby", right? I didn't see too many of those in school. I would have loved to watched "Hello, Dolly!" instead of films like "Your Body and You". [Smile]

Dominique,

It's always about money. A complete 3x2000 print is definitely cheaper than the condensed 3x1600 version. Cheaper to rent, too. I think of these edited films being shown someplace like a library or church basement. A shorter running time might be better for places like that.

Thank you again, Gerald. I'm glad I got to see "The Great Gatsby" before you sold it. It was a good digest.

Do any of you have a condensed 16mm feature? If so, what is it and is it edited well?

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There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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