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Author Topic: Filmguard affects sound tracks :/?
Elyas Tesfaye
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted March 20, 2016 12:08 PM      Profile for Elyas Tesfaye     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone on here has had an experience with muffled sound post cleaning a print with FG as well... Also, I have noticed this with some prints, and not all... The change is as if one's playing a silent print with the sprocket holes over the sound track pick up, and the sound at the same time. It becomes way more pronounced when using an eternal speaker when I have screenings in a bigger venue.

In my limited sound track know how, I have noticed two different tracks (The older one that look like IQ test figures and the ones with lines parallel to the upper and lower borders in a frame). Maybe either one is affected:\?

A newb seeking the pros' assistance,
Cheers,
Elyas

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted March 20, 2016 03:05 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi. I've not noticed that but I have had prints with ridiculously soft brown stripe that seemed to wipe off easily. Sorry I can't help

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Tony

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Elyas Tesfaye
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted March 21, 2016 12:11 PM      Profile for Elyas Tesfaye     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tony,

thanks for sharing, and that's helping, sir [Smile] !!!

Best,
Elyas

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James Wilson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Norwich, UK
Registered: Jan 2015

- posted March 21, 2016 01:12 PM      Profile for James Wilson   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use Cresclean and never had any adverse effects.

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James Wilson

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted March 21, 2016 01:52 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
If anything, I find filmguard to be one of only a handful cleaners that is perfectly safe to use on magnetic stripes....even pasted one's!

Trouble is, some pasted stripes are so poorly bonded to begin with, especially on the extremely thin and delicate balance side, they can come away from the polyester at times just by using an air blower brush or a dry cloth.

On these type of prints, no cleaner would help.

If the stripe is bonded well to begin with, I have never heard any deterioration of the soundtrack from using filmguard so far.

[ March 21, 2016, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

- posted March 21, 2016 02:19 PM      Profile for Dominique De Bast   Email Dominique De Bast   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello Elyas. Have you had problems only with 16 mm prints ? I have only few 16 mm or 9,5 striped films, most of them have an optical soundtrack. But with super 8, I have never had trouble with Filmguard regarding a lower sound quality after having put the product on a film. I readed on a stripping machine instruction book that films with a magnetic stripe should not be cleaned with anything else than what is sold in France Under the reference "essence C" (I found it in Paris, not in Belgium, I bought it as it is advised to clean a film with that before stripping it). But that instruction book was printed before Filmguard was on the market. I guess "new" products are compatible with magnetic stripes. A last thing, some films have a stripe that leaves a strong brwon colour on the cloth when Filmguard (and probably any other product) is used (Film Offices's films have that specificity) but so far I haven't noticed it affected the quality of the sound.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

- posted March 21, 2016 03:01 PM      Profile for Andrew Woodcock         Edit/Delete Post 
I've also used filmguard many times with Super 8mm optical prints with no ill effects.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Ray Faiola
Junior
Posts: 6
From: New York
Registered: Jan 2007

- posted March 23, 2016 10:08 AM      Profile for Ray Faiola   Author's Homepage   Email Ray Faiola   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only possibility is that still-wet Filmguard may cause the optical lens, hot from the exciter lamp, to FOG. If this happens, open the optical hatch while the film is running and fan the area where the optical lens is. This should dissipate the fogging.

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

- posted March 23, 2016 10:29 AM      Profile for Dino Everette     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If anything it helps...I have actually used film guard to transfer some old news film that had a bit of sticky shed syndrome.....Seriously it's one of the only cleaners that is both safe and helpful for mag striped film..If your stripe is coming off its probably not because of the film guard and would have happened regardless.....I run all of my Super 8 films through one of Roy Neil film o clean with film guard when I watch them...

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

- posted March 23, 2016 04:01 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The one sound problem I've had using FilmGuard was over-applying to a shrunken print, making it too slippery to track correctly on the drum. But I think to be that bad you'd also have some picture ghosting from over-travel, depending on your gate pressure.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

- posted March 23, 2016 04:43 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Same here Bill, the boys on here said to simply gently wipe off the excess, its worked perfectly, all films cleaned with FG and no more problems. [Wink]

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

- posted April 16, 2016 04:23 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For the record the 16mm optical tracks are either Western Electric type that is variable density and looks almost like a barcode generally. The other is variable area and is an RCA format. One or two squigly clear areas with black surrounding. I find the way to remember it is RCA, A for area. ( Though of course it is Radio Corporation of America.)

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Kenneth Horan
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted April 16, 2016 11:07 PM      Profile for Kenneth Horan   Email Kenneth Horan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Quote: For the record the 16mm optical tracks are either Western Electric type that is variable density and looks almost like a barcode generally. The other is variable area and is an RCA format. One or two squigly clear areas with black surrounding. I find the way to remember it is RCA, A for area. ( Though of course it is Radio Corporation of America.)

The dual bilateral variable area track you describe is Westrex.

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Ken Horan

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

- posted April 17, 2016 09:52 AM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How kind of you to correct me without elaborating. I was trying to simplify it for the original poster. The thread was about cleaning in fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound-on-film

If you feel Wikipedia is wrong please correct them.

Certainly density fell by the wayside and everything became area as I understand it. ( I thought only later stereo 35mm twin track was a Western Electric idea. The question was about 16mm. ) RCA invented the 'area' approach so for simplicity I have always referred to area or density - which look distinctly different - as being RCA or Western - they invented it. But feel free to give many links and by all means let's spend hours on it.

Elyas, I was trying to give you a rule of thumb on what those tracks are called. I think 'area' or 'density' optical tracks is a fair way to refer to the differences on a 16mm print. On FilmGuard, I know that too much can cause problems but can be wiped off with a further pass with a clean cloth.

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Doug Thompson
Junior
Posts: 20
From: Jacksonville, FL USA
Registered: Nov 2012

- posted May 18, 2016 07:35 PM      Profile for Doug Thompson   Email Doug Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Elyas,

In order to better speculate as to the cause, it would be helpful to know a few particulars.

1)Does the objectionable sound go away when the picture lamp is turned off? (Some projectors don`t allow running with the picture lamp off. To get around that, one would have to wait for the lamp to cool, remove it from the projector, and resume playback.)

2)Is it more noticeable on variable density tracks, variable area, or both. (If these are unfamiliar terms, scroll down to the bottom of this page.)

3)Is the film stock acetate or polyester (estar, mylar?)

I have some ideas, but I don`t want to make any suggestions until we can narrow it down a little.

Doug

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