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Author
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Topic: A contrast and a rant
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Michael O'Regan
Film God
Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted December 26, 2009 02:47 AM
Wed night I screened a newly acquired 16mm print of SCROOGE (1935) for the first time.
There were 20 frames of main title card remaining - less than a second; most of my audience missed it, several areas of torn perfs causing annoying jumping on-screen, almost constant band of white lines down the right side of the screen - does this sound like an "excellent shape" print to you. Well, thats how the seller described it!! It is a well-used and well-worn ex-rental print from MSP, and this is how it should have been sold. This is the third time this year I've been sent crappy prints - and these were from known "reputable" dealers, who had described the prints as otherwise. As it happens they are in the US, making returning these prints expensive. With the SCROOGE print,I can repair the torn perfs and the print will be reasonably OK; the seller has said he will try to send me titles clipped from another print if he gets one in. So, I guess the guy is trying to help in this case, BUT...these flaws should have been mentioned as they would have been deal breakers for me.
I'm just sick of getting crap prints in the post.
By comparison, my missus got me the John Barrymore Collection DVD set for Christmas. I don't have DVD projection so these were watched only on a large screen TV. But, what a pleasure to be able to watch these movies without having to deal with all the crap that goes along with projecting dud prints.
I'm getting a little tired of the hobby because of this.
Sorry to be downbeat.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
[ December 27, 2009, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Michael O'Regan ]
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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009
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posted December 26, 2009 03:41 AM
Michael, this is a problem in all hobbies.
In addition to Super 8, I also collect vinyl records, and I often have similar problems here. The sellers describe the records as very good, near mint etc. but when I get them they are all scratched and barely playable.
The problem is that the sellers are lying in your face just to make a sale. Do what I do, I send them mails demanding my money back, or I'm reporting them to eBay, causing them to lose grades, which isn't good news for sellers.
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Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!
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Michael O'Regan
Film God
Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted December 26, 2009 03:48 AM
Dino,I don't hate anybody. I'm just growing a little weary of it.
I'm wondering, how about you guys who collect mainly Super 8 - aside from colour fade, do you get a lot of poor prints in that gauge?
I love 16mm but its got to the stage where I'm just so reluctant to buy anything. Instead of looking forward to a print arriving I'm beginning to dread it. There are a couple of dealers who I trust implicitly, both in the US and here, but they don't always have the titles I'm after.
Christian, these were not Ebay sellers - I know that when I buy from Ebay and the seller is essentially an unknown, then, there is a certain risk involved.
These were private sales from sellers I thought I could trust.
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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009
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posted December 26, 2009 07:49 AM
I also use alot of local sellers here, and I've similar problems with them aswell. No idea why, but that's life I guess.
Like David said here, I also check all my reels thouroghly (how the hell do you spell that word?) before screening to avoid malfunctions.
On poor reels; yes, I recieved a batch of poor reels once, all from the same seller. Turns out he had no idea what defined a good reel, so I ended up with four reels in the mail, three of these in rather bad condition, but the last one was OK.
They were all repairable but still annoying. That's why I prefer trying to get my reels here before going on eBay, or asking one of the trusted sellers listed on the forum.
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Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted December 26, 2009 10:07 AM
"thoroughly"
I'm with you, Micheal, and the rant is justified. I had two terrible buys from two overseas sellers. Sadly, both purchases were off ebay, (yet one of the two, the STAR WARS Super 8 feature, was bought from a guy I bought other stuff from on ebay. Ebay items arrived, STAR WARS, which he curiously sent off seperately, didn't arrive. Coincidence? I think not! Damn that Lee!) I literally wrote off getting back into Super 8, but thought about it for a week, and my desire overcame my common sense!
Thankfully I think I can say that for every 9 good buys and trades, I have had 1 bad sale/trade. If I had written off getting back into Super 8, I would have missed out on finding the 8mm Forum, and I would have never met all these amazing people ...
Douglas Meltzer
Kevin faulkner
Joe "Shorty" Caruso
Winbert (can't spell the rest)
John Whittle
Jose Artilles
My Big Bro ... Keith Ashfield
Barry Atwood
The fine folks at Derann
Of course, you Micheal!
Larry Arpin
Dan Lail
and, could I possbily forget?
GIAN!!!
(as well as so many others)
I must say, though I have never met any of you in person, I truly feel that I would die a happy man if I got you all in the same room and we had a hell of a convention for a week or so!
My life would be somewhat empty without all our little jokes, diatribes against each others opinions and such. How much fun to constantly envy each others collections and learn so much. I do truly love this format!
It's been so long since I have seen that 1935 version of "Christmas Carol" Micheal. Is that the one where Marley's ghost sits down, unwraps his jaw, and it literally all but falls off? That shot really got me when I saw it, and I know it was in an early film version of this story.
Don't become too weary, my friend Micheal! I consider myself retired from collecting, (except for two choice titles). All I do is basically update what prints I have, but I still keep an open eye out for the odd print, and yoiks and away, the film bug bites me yet again!
May I be the first to wish you, Micheal, and all my friends on the Forum, a most Happy New Year! I toast you all, (and then I'll toast myself a dozen or so times ... hic!)
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006
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posted December 26, 2009 11:43 AM
I hear you on the pain of the prints....
I have a 16mm copy of "The Last Laugh", the great Emil Jannings film, and the seller said it was a school library print, but he didn't really spell out that there were lengths of PerFix at the beginning of both reels.
Once past that, the print is very nice, but it's the 'getting past it' part....I love my Eikis dearly, but they do get a bit temperamental when they have to get up to speed in 'bumpy territory' like that. With some conditioning, the print runs better, but it would have been nice to know in advance.
I would still have bought it, but for the sake of fairness, this should have been mentioned.
But I agree, way too many sellers go by words only, no pics, and then keep it as useless as possible, i.e. 'nice condition' which says nothing.
My 'question' e-mails are getting increasingly detailed and firm if I want info on a print.
I hate to have to be that way, but one has to read these things almost like a lawyer these days. So many seem to want to slide by on "implication" of quality.
Claus.
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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted December 26, 2009 02:24 PM
No sweat Micheal ...
This place, this Forum, is our equivilant of "Film Therapy Sessions".
Everybody, I'd like to introduce to the session, Micheal.
Will you all greet Micheal?
"Welcome Micheal!"
"Screw you Micheal!"
Micheal, please ignore our member in the back with terets syndrome. Will you introduce yourself.
(We could see Micheal get up before the circle, which is rather large)
"Hello, my name is Micheal, and I'm a film addict."
(many shaking of heads in the circle)
(Micheal starts to become emotional as he speaks)
"It started out so innocently. A little 50ft reel when I was a kid. So innocent, so harmless, but I found myself wanting more!
Then I found out about 200ft reels, I was beginning to get hooked."
"Let it out brother, let it out"
(states one Keith A. from the circle, his eyes shut in approval)
"Well, the 200ft's did me well for awhile, but soon, that wasn't enough. I had to have more MORE. The earlier hits on the projector just didn't give me that same high. I therefore found 400ft reels. 400ft!! But then ... I did something I'm so ashamed of ... I .. I ..."
"Let it out! It's cleansing."
"I started to DEAL!"
"Yes, its so true!"
(quothe one Douglas, a lifelong member of the F.A. group, "Filmaholics Annonymous")
"I started deal to my friends, getting them hooked, on 50fts, then the bigger hits. In the meantime, I continued to spiral downhill. I discovered ... discovered ... "
"Dont hold back ... "
"FEATURES!!"
"Amen brother!"
"Oh, just a three reel Laurel and Hardy, and I thought that might be enough, but I was found, sprawled out on the carpet, with a BEN HUR print!"
"Guys, I need help ... HELP!!"
"You've came to the right place, Micheal! You'll find understanding here and the4 support we all desperately need!"
Now, take a deep cleansing breathe, (in and out ... in and out),
and thread that favorite print in your collection and sit back and enjoy!
By the way, believe me Micheal, I'm sure that there is just as much frustration to Super 8 as there is in 16MM!
I hope you enjoyed my warped sense of humor. I know I do!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Keith Ashfield
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 997
From: U.K.
Registered: Dec 2006
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posted December 27, 2009 03:19 AM
Brother Osi (Lil' Bro.)
quote:
I consider myself retired from collecting
You know that film collectors never "retire". They just simply "go red and fade away".
Just like in your "Filmaholic" scenario, I have to admit my "vice". I had been a "Filmaholic" for more than twenty years. Then, I took the "pledge" and went "cold turkey"
For twenty years I was "Clean", dear boy. Then an unplaned stop at a hotel for a drink and a toilet visit (not necessarily in that order) changed all that, forever.
I remember it well. The month was November. The year 2006. The hotel was "The Cliffs" in Blackpool.
Without prior knowledge, and completely by chance I had stumbled across a "clandestine meeting" of "filmaholics", who were indulging in the "vice" that I had left behind nearly twenty years prior.
It was that damn Northern Film Collectors Convention!
Before I knew it, I had broken "my pledge" and purchased a 400ft digest of "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" and was I "hooked" again. I have to admit now, that from that small indulgance, on that fateful day, I am again, a full-blown aholic.
I cannot stop it, believe me I've tried - I have even taken the "methadone cure of film collecting" - DVD projection - but I still have to get out my equipment, at least once a week, lace up "the stuff" we call "celluloid" and drift off into that fantasy world, in the dark.
Yes brothers, I too have been "peddled" some "dodgy stuff" over the years (in fact, the film that got me "hooked" at that hotel turned out to have more "grooves" on it than a 12" vinyl record).
Like you Michael,at times, I have looked at this "filthy habit" of ours and said,
"Is it all worth it?"
Only you can truly answer that question, my friend. But remember,in this world of ours, riddled with wars,recessions, famine and global warming - can you really do without that moment of happiness and joy, that we all feel, when we partake of that shot of "celluloid".
Never lose sight of the fact that you are not alone out there. There are always the "Freemasons of Film". That elite group of individuals, who belong to the 8mm Forum, to which you can turn to in your darkest hour.
Amen, Brothers.
As you can see "a warped sense of humour" seems to "run in the family". I wonder if this is a side effect of the "habit"?
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"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted December 27, 2009 01:54 PM
"Go red and fade away"
PRICELESS!
Getting back to Micheal, perhaps the best way to buy is to get a screenshot or shots of the print ahead of time, but even this is iffy, as they could just steal a screenshot on ebay. That has happened a number of times.
I've mentioned this before, but a few months back, there was a fella selling a print of "Empire Strikes Back Part 1 (400ft) and he had screenshots of the print, and it was obviously faded, but I admired that.
For the next two months I saw the same exact screenshots on at least six auctions after this. The dolts! They could have had perfect color prints but because of they're "theft" of screenshots, they sold they're prints short.
Heck, if your going to steal screenshots, at least have the intelligence to steal good color shots, for petes sake!
Keep the faith, my tired and beleagered brother!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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