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Author
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Topic: Future of Film "Dealing".
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted December 17, 2013 02:57 PM
Well, I was going to leave this alone, being Christmas et al, but my conscious is gnawing at me, so here goes...
I really admire and try to support the remaining film conventions, and the various remaining film dealers.
Of course, private selling via the forums and eBay has confronted this "traditional" re-selling of films, with arguments both ways.
Recently, I sold some films at a convention.
I described them, fairly, I thought, as in far from perfect; unsteady picture / scratches, etc.
And at reasonable prices.
I dearly hoped that a collector would see them and buy them as a bargain; they were still "watchable" and, for all intent and purposes, enjoyable.
I watched as a film dealer bought them.
No problem.
But now I see "similar" prints listed with prices of more than 2 and 4 times than paid for my prints, by said dealer.
Still no problem, these may not be my prints.
They are listed as excellent.
Thoughts...?
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted December 17, 2013 04:03 PM
where shall i start with this one without causing any offence to any dealers, it is not intended,
Our friends at Perrys have recently put some great titles on ebay of late and with Alien in mind got a rather good price of around £700 plus.
There are two things here, first, like all companies perrys are in buisness to make a profit so they can either put a list out like they have done for years to the collectors on there system and get maybe 300 for the same title, or two, they can use e-bay and aim for the customers who still dont know that dealers are there,(there obviously too dim to google super 8mm film dealers)& these people seem happy to pay way over the odds so now what we have is decent titles often going onto websites to sell, (if they fetch this kind of money can you blame them) and getting an awful lot of money for just a few titles, as Ian said previously, check it out and bid accordingly, so now after many years of recieving lists in the post or on the website dealers can now list for free and get more for there films. As i said many times before i myself am also guilty of putting titles onto ebay and in most cases have been happy with what i have got for them,
The problem i think with dealers prefering to use ebay and abandoning lists to dedicated collectors is that the hobby may decline faster and dealers themselves may perish sooner, which on the up side means maybe our films will go up in value or collectors will abandon the hobby in favour of the digital projection which will be a whole lot cheaper, though as we all know , not quite the same. I dont know about you all but as much as i love our hobby i'll never pay the kind of monies that these titles now command on the net, at the end of the day its a movie and i cant ever warraant hundruds of pounds for any movie.
you may recall i listed a faded copy of the last command a month or so ago, it fetched £30 ish pounds which i was happy with, however, the courior seemed to take forever to get it ther so during that time i was in touch with the guy who bought it, he was a lovely bloke and we spoke about the hobby a lot, what surprised me was that he was in his early 70s and only ever bought his films on ebay, he did not know that any dealers existed still or about this forum yet he used the internet ,i gave him the details of the
bfcc and all the dealers, he was well happy and even ordered a film from paul foster cheaper than he was going to bid for it on ebay from a private collector. My point here is simply, here is a long term collector who thought that the collectors had all closed, yet was paying over the odds for a few simple common films.
The final thing to remeber is that for some of our well known dealers super 8 is no longer the full time buisness, just a nice little earner. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Michael O'Regan
Film God
Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted December 17, 2013 04:46 PM
My point was not that the dealer in this case is charging 2 or 3 times more than he paid - I see nothing whatsoever wrong with that.
However, if the condition of the prints (assuming they are, in fact, Rob's prints) is "far from perfect, unsteady picture/scratches, etc." as Rob describes, and the dealer is claiming the condition as "excellent", then this is wrong.
But, like I said...it may be a coincidence...
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted December 18, 2013 03:01 PM
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) thats it Michael, i guess at the end of the day dealers are in buisness to make money regardless and with dealers now choosing e-bay to sell from, the loyalty to collectors of many years is of no concern to them, (if it was ever there in the first place). There are no friends in buisness.
Lets be honest, some of us including me have sold some of our films on e-bay because we get a better price than the dealers will give us, it wasnt that long ago you would be lucky to get a couple of quid for a 400 foot cut down from a dealer, & you had to post your films to them at your expense, i myself( ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif) ) put one on ebay and got over £50 for it. I guess the dealers,(or some of them) have simply joined the bandwagon. Sad but true, but as some of you do point out, its nice to know that at the moment we can get reasonble to ridiculous money for some cine films. What ebay does do it give you customers who will pay what it takes for them to win your movie, it is often luck of the draw as to who is on there when your film is listed, Star Wars is a great example, a print recently sold on ebay for just £450 yet we all know there are looneys out there who have paid well over £1500.
I for one thought that Super 8 would have died years ago, im pleased to say, i was wrong.
Heres a question, if you own a copy of Star Wars already and saw a copy somewhere for £200 how many people of you can seriously say you would not purchase this title and then list it straight onto ebay at the first free listing weekend? I would.
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Mike Peckham
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1461
From: West Sussex, UK.
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted December 19, 2013 02:56 AM
This thread is perplexing me, it seems as though there are two completely different conversations going on. Rob, in his original post, spoke of the possibility of a dealer having bought a film or films knowing them to be in poor condition and then describing them as being in excellant condition when selling them on. But at least half the replies seem to be talking about dealers buying films cheaply and then selling them at a profit.
This might be a case of - read the posts through properly before replying...
Anyway, that said, Rob, the same thing happened to me; I sold a number of films at the BFCC to a dealer and in amongst them were several that I sold very cheaply on the basis that the colour was gone, in fact the prints were completely pink. I have now seen all the films I sold appear on the dealers list and those that had poor colour are being resold for top dollar with no mention of the lack of colour.
Hopefully he will be happy to do a refund when the dissapointed buyer projects his new film for the first time...
But to pick up the tandem issue that has been raised in this post, I have no objection whatsoever to him selling the films I sold on to him at a profit, after all, that's what business is all about.
Mike ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
--------------------
Auntie Em must have stopped wondering where I am by now...
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Ian O'Reilly
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 737
From: London
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted December 19, 2013 02:02 PM
Hi all,
Just thought I would add my two pennyworth, Just to put the record straight PERRY’S, when attending the BFCC do not buy films we go there to sell films only.
I agree with Paul Browning and think in fairness that any dealer in question should be named so that they have the right to reply and answer any accusations and explain themselves.
Tom
I see where you are coming from, I sell on e-bay because it’s self regulating i.e when I list a film I start it around a price I think it is worth, once listed it is out of my hands so what it sells for over and above the starting price I am then pleasantly surprised at the finale auction price, I list on e-bay because I have other business commitments that at the moment prevents me from doing a full list and posting either on the forum or by pigeon post.
What I list on e-bay is a fraction of stock that I am holding that will be listed on the forum at a later date. I am in no way deserting my loyal customers which I have great respect and serviced for many years.
Maurice
Nothing would please me more than to sit down all day and watch the films that I have for sale but that would not be cost effective or viable, over the years you get to know your customers who sell you films and if the say they are good I tend to take their word for it.
Should there be a fault with any print I sell the customer knows that I will endeavour to sort the problem out straight away.
Michael
I agree with you, if a dealer is not pulling his weight he should be brought to book, I have seen over the years many dealers who were going to set the Super 8 world on fire only to sparkle for a short time and then fade away.
I hope that puts the record straight.
Have a great Christmas and a Super 8 year.
Ian
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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