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Topic: No Interest In My MINT "Bonnie Scotland" On E-Bay
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted March 27, 2006 11:50 PM
Tony,
Thank you for your very welcome support
to my comments regarding this thread which
was begun by Tom Pennock.
Just to clear up the issue, Tom was selling
and hoping to achieve a fair return
on the full length Bonnie Scotland feature
which he had initially paid $300.00 US.
Indeed it is unfortunate, especially when
one has had their heart set on what
should be considered a fair or equal
return for such a unique print.
I define it as unique, because it was issued
in Super 8 sound, during a time when
most collectors viewed the format in
direct competition with the emerging
Video tape packaged movies years ago.
Bonnie Scotland is also unique, because
this title was not offered by Blackhawk Films
in the USA, or by any of the outfits located
in Europe.
When both this and The Devils Brother (Fra Diavolo)
was released, it was not only an opportunity to purchase
these prints, but also a treat to see them for
the very first time. These two titles were lost
to a generation of Laurel and Hardy Buffs,
that had probably seen most if not all of their
work, and when these were released, it was
the icing on the cake. Even more fortuitous,
the print quality was superb for Super 8mm at
the time.
As Mary Poppins would say: It was practically perfect.
Anyway, I encouraged Tom, to give the review
another go, and try to emphasize the positive
points of this feature.
How we help one another, and pursue the
time to write on the forum, is a direct correlation
to the good health to this fun format.
I marvel at how everyone has a specialty
in 8mm, and it is all worthy to share.
Super 8 is great, and we need to promote it.
If a title is not understood for any reason,
it is with the hope that someone will have the
time and fortitude to express the positive
merits in the hobby.
When I read that collectors are joyful
with color prints that have turned
to varying degrees of color fade,
and still find the value in a faded
print over a video or DVD,
then once again it proves the value
in this small gauge. Is very pleasing
and extremely worthwhile.
Michael
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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted March 28, 2006 05:06 PM
Micheal, certianly the poet of the 8mm forum.
Actually, considering how much most Laurel and Hardy features go for these days on ebay, (I've never paid more than 50.00 american) 125.00 dollars is pretty good.
I think Bonnie scotland is more of a preferred taste for L & H fans, which is why it wouldn't go for as much.
But hey, 125.00 isn't THAT BAD of a return for a used print of this, regadless of what a person paid for them originally.
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted March 28, 2006 10:16 PM
Osi,
quote:
125.00 isn't THAT BAD of a return for a used print.
I think Bonnie scotland is more of a preferred taste for L & H fans, which is why it wouldn't go for as much.
125.00 is not bad for a used print, and it is a steal for a print as Bonnie Scotland.
Indeed to many film collectors, The Sons of the Desert and Way Out West are considered to be the features that are desired to own in a film library.
Opposite to being familiar with the Hal Roach- Film Classic TV package release prints.
I had never seen a complete print of Bonnie Scotland over the airwaves.
But I do remember, that to own a film as special as Bonnie Scotland and The Devils Brother, was always the special elusive title that many of us desired. Before these titles were released for the home market, I recall traveling to the Museum of Modern Art in NYC, for a special 35 mm screening of The Devils Brother.
Needless to say, it was a delight. Watching the boys in their original element
was a joy to behold.
Four years ago, The Charter group; The New York Sons of the Desert, hosted a special 35 mm screening at the Lowes Jersey in Journal Square. The Lowes, is a wonderful movie palace from 1929 that is supported by private contributions. At this screening there was a Warner Brothers Tweety cartoon, the trailer for the Rouge Song, a comedic short of Laurel and Hardy in NYC taken around 1932, Hog Wild, Charlie Chase in the short 'Four Parts' and Laurel and Hardy in Way Out West.
There were about 400 people in the audience. Many of these 'Uncollectors' (people off the street that don't collect film, roared with delight and buried much of the succeeding dialog with laughter.
I had never experienced this unbridled energy at a public screening. This proves that as collectors, we have lost the value of film and have not experienced The Boys in a venue that they were meant to be enjoyed. The laughter was infectious.
Is Bonnie Scotland a preferred taste? -Maybe. However we have become critical of film. Either because we have traded it off to compare with cost and the value of a DVD, or the lack of library space in our rooms, homes, and lofts.
Notice that I defined our collections as a 'Library,' because I can safely bet that we own more film than the average collector. Film illustrates our taste for a medium that is superior to Television. Thus we dictate when to take out and run a spool / reel of film. Instead of the Television dictating to us, we decide when a program must begin and end.
Think for a moment on how often we are disturbed when the film does not follow the path correctly, or the bulb blows out mid way through a program. It's a pity, and it throws off our engaged spirit of the program. We are engaged as we look up with a starry eyed gaze at the screen, and surrender ourselves reel by reel as the pictures float through the air.
Michael
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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted April 11, 2006 08:10 PM
I watched my VHS of BONNIE over the weekend. Then I turned on TCM last night and it was on the air! Hadn't watched this one in a while. Here are some fresh observations:
It really is 2 films -- not just because of the obvious break between the Scotland/civilian scenes and the India/army scenes. The Scotland scenes are slowly paced, badly edited, badly directed, and badly acted. (I say this as a HUGE fan of the boys, so don't shoot me.) Once the locale shifts to India, the picture picks up pace and the Boys are back in form. Only dull spots in the second half are when they aren't on screen -- the first half is dull even when they are on screen.
First Half:
Reading of the will scene is awkward. Jokes about Stan's father killing himself are depressing and unfunny. Ollie falls over his bags for no reason (no setup, no anticipation, he just falls -- and in front of a crowd -- embarrassing, not funny). They have a conversation about being in jail -- unfunny, child viewers will think they are bad guys.) The scene with Ollie sneezing all the water out of the pond is ridiculous and probably only funny to a 7 year old. The fish cooking scene is as slow-paced as one of their earliest talkies (e.g. THEY GO BOOM.) The lack of music during these scenes is deafening! The segue into the second half is the Boys mistaking an army recruitment place for a tailor. Hilarious.
Second Half:
The Boys play finger games; play with their hats; have a dancing scene; have run-ins with Finlayson; cause their entire regiment to be out-of-step when marching; the "mirage scene." There is some background music to these scenes. The pacing is great, the Boys deliver their lines comfortably and in-character. Everything "clicks." Only bad part if the very end with the bees, and Stan almost killing himself.
According to the Skredtvedt book, most of this movie was filmed before THICKER THAN WATER. Additional filming and retakes were done after that film. I think this was after the first cut was previewed and they realized the Boys played second-fiddle to the "Alan" character. My personal opinion is that the fish-cooking scene was filmed at this point, rather hurriedly to get the picture out into release. The lack of a music score during this scene supports my "in a rush" theory.
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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted April 16, 2006 12:59 AM
Tony,
This is a very good analysis. As buffs, we all can become critical / analytical in what makes a film work.
Granted, Bonnie Scotland may not be considered to be their best work. However, lets also look at the Bohemian Girl. That feature had its problems with casting and script, but to this very day I still find both of these features enjoyable.
I consider, the features that the boys made during the post Hal Roach period are more of their lesser effort. This does not indicate that they placed less effort into their films, because I still watch these features that were made post 1940.
Hence, the same holds true for some of the Roach features that were made and which we hold debate over time and again. Stan and Babe were masters of their craft. Hal Roach and the bookkeeper had their own egos and ideas that were notorious in making the boys miserable post 1934.
Stan was aware of this, and the reason that any feature made by his production company, had desirable results.
Interestingly, while on tour in the USA and Europe during the late 1940's and into the early 50's, Stan was aware that they had not made a picture since the 30's and their acclaim followed them years after their best work at Roach.
Official Biographer, the late John McCabe attested to this. While he was studying Shakespeare in the UK, he flipped a coin whereas to take a chance to sneak by and hope to visit the boys back stage, or to move on and live by a fleeting memory. The result was years beyond Babes passing, and the formation of the Sons of the Desert in 1965. The Sons was then, and is still now a place to gather and enjoy the films of Stan and Babe. Not by one person, but by a group. It's a gathering that allows us to debate and laugh about this great team forty years since its formation, and almost eighty years after they became a team.
Michael
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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!
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