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Author Topic: Old prints (e.g. Ken Films, Marketing, U-8, UFA, etc) that have held color
John Skujins
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Registered: Mar 2009


 - posted October 18, 2010 09:58 AM      Profile for John Skujins   Email John Skujins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave, I recently bought a copy of ESB Part 1 from Jean-Marc that is also low fade. It looks as good as my Part 2.

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John W. Black
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Deptford,N.J.
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 - posted October 19, 2010 12:42 AM      Profile for John W. Black   Author's Homepage   Email John W. Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The very last U-8 boxes were clear plastic with a momeographed insert.I have about a half dozen prints of Family Plot I got at the end.

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Beat em or burn em,they go up pretty quick

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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 - posted October 19, 2010 02:27 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is no evidence of LPP fading Winbert, that I am aware of. We have been using it in theatres now for 27 years. Even those first prints have perfect colour.

John you are lucky to have prints as nice as that. My two SW and ESB have faded over the years.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 19, 2010 06:49 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
There is no evidence of LPP fading Winbert,
If you are talking LPP as the Kodak trade mark, I don't know since I don't have one.

But if we are talking low fade stock, as my AGFA above, it proves it will fade.

cheers,

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Winbert

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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 - posted October 19, 2010 07:17 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert,

Agfa and Fuji developed low fade stocks around the same time as Kodak offered LPP (low-fade positive print) stock. In the late 1970's when Kodak offered SP, the Agfa product was certainly better with holding colour, but none of the three had colour print stock in the 1970's that was a patch on what they offered in the mid - 1980's.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted October 27, 2010 12:20 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Next is the most discussed film in this forum [Big Grin]

Rose
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: Agfa
Lab: ....
Date of Print: 1982

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Nice color ! hope all Ken like this.

Many members reported here that they also have Rose on AGFA. I think majority of Rose is printed on this low fade stock. So if you see this title on Ebay, you will not be disappointed with it.

cheers

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Winbert

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Washington, DC
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 - posted October 28, 2010 06:09 AM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert-

Those colors on the Rose are pretty good. Not a great print to begin with, as the movie didn't have a lot to offer in terms of glorious colors, but its held up well. I'll try and check mine this week and see how it looks.

That Marketing print of Raiders looks like it has colors, but strange looking. I wonder if it looked like that when it was released in the early 80's?

Some of my Marketing have held up well. I screened Samson and Delilah the other day, and the beautiful colors were popping off the screen. Here's some shots:

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted October 28, 2010 08:50 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
James, your Sasmson & Delilah print is beautiful. I like to have one.

quote:

That Marketing print of Raiders looks like it has colors, but strange looking. I wonder if it looked like that when it was released in the early 80's?

No, James, I once planed to re-dub the soundtrack to stereo sound, so I took video shot when it was still in good colors. I still have that video shot and it is so pain having seen how good the colors used to be. And now it look like the above pictures (the actual print is even worst than the above. Above pictures have been "corrected" automatically by my digital camera, so there seems to have blue left, but actually it is not!! [Mad] )

BTW, I have edited the thread title, so now it is not only talking Ken and U8 but all old prints (released during the 8mm heyday until 1980s) that still hold the color.

It can be from Ken Films, Marketing Films, U8, Columbia, UFA, Piccolo, Techno Films, etc.

Derann/CHC prints do not fall into this category because they were printed in the middle of 1980s or after 1990s.

So anyone who has old prints that still have good colors, please post here as our screen shot database, so we can find how big is our chance to have good dolor prints.

cheers,

[ October 28, 2010, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

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Winbert

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted October 28, 2010 04:36 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Below is not my print, I just found from Ebay. But since it is a digest 3 x 400" print, I believe this is the one from Ken Film.

Having seen the screen shot, I can say that it still preserve the color very well.

Quo Vadis
Length: 3 x 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: Kodak SP (I guess)
Lab:
Date of Print: ....

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I understand the very same title was also released by UFA. I have a feeling that the reels actually came from Ken. Can German members give a comment if they have seen better color than the above screen shots, please?.

cheers,

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Winbert

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Washington, DC
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 - posted October 29, 2010 06:44 AM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow! I'll be checking my print of "Quo Vadis" this weekend!

I ran a couple of musical digests last night, with mixed results.

First is the Columbia 400 foot digest of TOMMY, with great colors:

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And, speaking of "The Rose", I ran that too, and its not as good as Winbert's copy-

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Still very watchable print though, and both are decent digests.

James.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted November 12, 2010 11:21 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Please note: this film is not mine. Pictures were taken from Ebay. The winner of this film is one of the member here. I am just happy to see that Ken also has these gorgeous color.

Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: LPP (??)
Lab: ....
Date of Print: most likely 1982 (seen from the original box which was issued only on the last day of Ken)

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The original box (similar to UFA released in Germany):

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anybody wants to add more films you have?

quote:
When this thread began I thought it would be short list; other than the stunning Elvis print it looks like I'm correct.
So David, you don't need to be so pessimistic [Wink]

cheers,

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Winbert

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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 - posted November 12, 2010 08:19 PM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, I can see colour fade in your shots of The Rose and Quo Vadis. That Empire Strikes Back print looks good however.

Unless it is I.B. Technicolour, Kodachrome or Eastman Kodak LPP from 1983 onwards (or Agfa or Fufi from similar time) it will eventually fade.

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James N. Savage 3
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From: Washington, DC
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 - posted November 13, 2010 08:50 AM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, you can see color fade in those Empire Strikes Back pictures?? Thats amazing. I don't see any fade in those at all.

Check monitor please [Wink] .

James.

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David Kilderry
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 - posted November 13, 2010 09:30 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
James, you mis-read what I wrote; I think the Empire Strikes Back print shots show no colour fade at all.

The Rose and Quo Vadis are the ones that have colour fade.

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James N. Savage 3
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From: Washington, DC
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 - posted November 13, 2010 12:21 PM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh David-

I'm so sorry, I totally missed the last part of your sentence [Embarrassed] .

As for the Rose and QuoVadis- I can see a little fade on those (more so on The Rose), but I have to admit, that Quo Vadis does look good!

James.

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David Kilderry
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 - posted November 14, 2010 01:26 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No worries James; I had to re-read it myself to see what I actually did write!

If the fundamental shade in a scene is light brown, then it has started to fade. The Quo Vadis shots show this as do the Rose stills. Have a look at the Star Wars ESB shots and the full colour spectrum is evident still.

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Brian Hendel
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 - posted November 14, 2010 03:07 PM      Profile for Brian Hendel   Email Brian Hendel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A question for James - Is your Samson and Delilah the 3 X 400' version? I bought a lot of films and included were parts 1 and 3 of the three reeler. The colors are so gorgeous (like your screenshots) so I am keeping it even though it's not really my cup of tea. Anyway, I was wondering if your set has a reel two and if the colors are as good as the other two reels. I have read another post that said there was an issue with reel 2 and the quality did not match the other reels. I'm just trying to find out if there is indeed gorgeous prints of reel #2 that I should be searching for.... Brian

Also, I'm very jealous of your Tommy print. I have had about 10 copies over the years and they have all been red so I gave up on it - now I have something else to find!

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David Kilderry
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From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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 - posted November 15, 2010 01:13 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brian, I agree with you on Tommy. I love mine even though it is one of the most faded prints I have............I also have a pinball machine, but it has not faded.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted November 15, 2010 11:24 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
As for the Rose and QuoVadis- I can see a little fade on those (more so on The Rose),
Hi David and James,

Actually, Rose is better in terms of fading, because it is on AGFA. The Qua Vadis (although I don't have it), I can see is on Kodak SP.

The pale color on Rose print I believe it came from the negative.

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Winbert

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James N. Savage 3
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 - posted November 16, 2010 06:30 PM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually Brian, its funny you mentioned that about Samson and Delilah-

That is exactly the case with my print (I didn't bring it up before for fear of taking this thread way off-topic).

Reels #1 and #3 are B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L color, while #2 is fading.

The only thing I know is, #1 & #3 are in German boxes, and #2 is in an American box (those familiar with Marketing Films can tell the difference [Wink] ).

I bought it as a set, but for whatever reason, there is that strange quality difference.

As for Tommy-
I might be willing to sell or trade that nice print in the near future Brian, and you've got first dibs on it!

James.

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Brian Hendel
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 - posted November 17, 2010 07:11 AM      Profile for Brian Hendel   Email Brian Hendel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
James - Thanks for the info so there is something odd about reel two of S & D. If anyone knows if there are good quality reels twos around please let us know. Also, yes, I want first dibs on your Tommy print so let me know when you're ready to part with it. Maybe I have something you're looking for in a trade?

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted November 22, 2010 12:12 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One Man Flint
Length: 400"
Released by: Ken Films
Country: USA
Stock: Kodak SP
Lab: ??
Date of Print: March 1977

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cheers,

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Winbert

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James N. Savage 3
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From: Washington, DC
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 - posted November 29, 2010 01:57 PM      Profile for James N. Savage 3   Email James N. Savage 3   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow! Great colors on that "Flint" digest Winburt.

I haven't watched mine in YEARS. I'll have to find it and check the colors.

James.

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Douglas Meltzer
Moderator

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 - posted November 29, 2010 08:16 PM      Profile for Douglas Meltzer   Email Douglas Meltzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Universal 8 2x400' Battlestar Galactica may be faded but I recently got the 400' version and it still looks good.
Eastman rules!

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Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted November 30, 2010 02:53 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaaaah Doug, you finally put this Galactica ..... [Big Grin]

For me, this galactica is still good. I know it is on Eastman, will get faded eventually. But they are still good now.

Anyway, below is Doug's copy of "China Syndrome". I compiled them in smaller shots, so less grainy. The bigger shots are in Doug's original thread The China Syndrome

China Syndrome
Length: 400"
Released by: Columbia Pictures
Country: USA
Stock: Kodak SP
Lab: ....
Date of Print: 1981

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It is still good for 1980s print.

cheers,

[ December 14, 2010, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

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Winbert

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