8mm Forum: Vinegar Syndrome. Would you buy it?

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Topic: Vinegar Syndrome. Would you buy it?

Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011

posted October 17, 2011 12:53 PM

I know that VS has been discussed here before but I could not fine an answer to this question.

Would any of you be willing to buy a title you really wanted even if you know it has VS?

I, like many of you, buy and sell films on eBay. There was one I would not sell nor can I ever watch again. I threw my copy of "Silver Streak" away because it had a faint vinegar smell. As I still collect film, I try to ask about it before I commit to a purchase or bid. I made the mistake of not doing so recently and even though the seller agreed to a return, I only got back about half of what I paid.

Here is another example with a better outcome. I saw this 3x400 "Mutiny on the Bounty" last minute, really wanted it and purchased it with no time to ask about VS.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220864838776?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp4712.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D220864838776%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories %26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

Turns out each reel smelled awful and they were completely faded. The seller, having bought it at an estate sale and having no knowledge of VS, agreed to a full refund.

There is another seller who has digests I am interested in. I asked about VS. They responded, as most sellers do, that "yes I do get a slight hint of vinager with this movie and some of the others that have plastic covers. The ones in cardboard I do not. What does this mean?" I have explained it to them. Still waiting for their response. These are the titles.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Entertainment-Memorabilia-/45100/i.html?_catref=1&_ssn=chintzefeline&_trksid=p3911.c0.m1538

The other side of this is, would you be willing to sell a title with VS to someone who wanted it regardless of it's condition? Would you sell a film with VS at all or just toss it? I still have a few and I will never sell them. I will most likely throw them away.

As for purchasing, I will not buy film with VS no matter how much I want it.

Your thoughts?

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There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted October 17, 2011 01:15 PM

A VS print which is still projectable should be kept apart from other prints, but otherwise I don't see a problem.
Personally, I wouldn't bother unless it was a title I absolutely had to have and it would absolutely have to NOT be available to buy on DVD or anything else - but that's just me. I know collectors who have VS prints and the prints run fine.
[Smile]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 17, 2011 02:26 PM

There are some confusion about VS and we can only know if it is the real VS or "just smell like VS" after we physically have the films.

Some smell that like VS for example:

- Lab/chemical smell (go to old photo studio and you will know it)
- Rats urine (if films have been sitting in the attic, there might possibility rats have peed on it)

If non-film collectors are asked if their films being offered have VS smell, and they found the two example above, they will answer "yes they have VS".

But I don't think the two smell above will destroy films.

So it is really gambling buying films from non-collector. My key word if the price is incredibly cheap, I just go ahead, but if it normal price, we have to be really careful.

VS cannot be stopped, it will be worsening by the time and eventually you will not be able to watch your films.

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Winbert

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 17, 2011 03:55 PM

I thought I had a VS print once. I wrote to Gary at Derann and he told me VS is unusual on Super-8 because most commercial prints are on polyester (Your home movies: mostly acetate, though). I verified that print wasn't acetate either, and whatever the reason (hopefully unrelated to rat urine...) it gradually aired out.

I've been in the same room with a lot of acetate prints and the vinegar smell can be kind of pungent. Sometimes I wonder if my print was stored in an environment like this and picked up the odor.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted October 17, 2011 04:48 PM

Anything I have afflicted with VS is either 16mm or standard 8mm. The reason Super 8 isn't affected is it's too new! But I expect all my Super 8 acetates to eventually go the same way, including our family home movies.

I've kept some mild VS prints projectable for years and with a combination of desert dry weather and molecular sieves. The most important thing is to keep them dry, cool, and have a way to absorb what is out-gased by the print (the sieves being the best way). Doing that, you can keep a print usable for a long, long time.

When is it no longer usable? When it shrinks too much to stay in focus or register steadily. So if you can't SEE or hear the effects of VS, then hang on.

Then the question becomes: is it worth the effort? IMO, it either has to be really rare, desirable, or cheap. Or all three!

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Gerald Santana
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1060
From: Cottage Grove OR
Registered: Dec 2010

posted October 17, 2011 05:12 PM

Hi Chris,

I'll take all the free VS prints you have...seriously.

P.S. I just sold a Super 8 copy of U8 copy of Monkey Business on eBay, purchased with VS (without my knowledge) from another Forum member. I listed the film with VS and it still sold, so it may still be a 'keeper' for someone on a title by title basis.

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http://lostandoutofprintfilms.blogspot.com/

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted October 17, 2011 05:15 PM

VS is not the plague.
[Smile]

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Chris Fries
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Ohio, US
Registered: Aug 2011

posted October 17, 2011 07:10 PM

It's not? This is from Film-to-Video.com

Vinegar Syndrome is contagious: Other movie film can be "infected" -- through the air. If you can "smell your movie film" -- any smell like vinegar -- you are losing it, fast! If YOU can smell it, then chances are that ALL your other movie film -- stored with the movie film that you CAN smell -- already has it, too. Run, don't walk, to digitize your movie film. Once Vinegar Syndrome starts, there is no way to reverse it.

Is this not true?

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There's a great big beautiful tomorrow just a dream away.

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Gerald Santana
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1060
From: Cottage Grove OR
Registered: Dec 2010

posted October 17, 2011 08:02 PM

Chris,

This is my inexpensive "folk" remedy for this, and I will also say that it does not go away over night. I've never revealed it anyone on Forum because the method may be controversial but for me, it maintains some success.

On a table with rewinds or a baker rack that can be placed outside, covered but, aerated and away from light, you file your films with VS. After letting them "breath" outside for a few days (with rewinds) you would advance them tails out. let them hang out like that for a couple of days.

For strong VS, here is what I've been using recently...sandalwood or more specifically, Nag Champa. Yes, a soap incense to smoke out that VS! It seems to be working faster than other methods I've used. I like the smell of burning sandalwood, but not everyone might.

P.S. VS is not the reason why I sold Monkey Business -- I actually don't like The Marx Bros. that much, I thought I was buying Howard Hawks' film! Also, filmtovideo needs more "scare" in their sell for their film to video business. [Roll Eyes]

. The line: "Run, don't walk" is the tell.

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http://lostandoutofprintfilms.blogspot.com/

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted October 17, 2011 11:30 PM

So the ones in plastic have VS but boxed ones don't -- that means their storage was also hostile (a hot attic?) but the cardboard allowed more breathing, yes?

Given this seller posts everything sold "as is," has no knowledge of films, and can't vouch for condition, I'd avoid all of these. Certainly the color would have to be faded dreadfully.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted October 18, 2011 07:02 AM

quote:
Vinegar Syndrome is contagious: Other movie film can be "infected" -- through the air. If you can "smell your movie film" -- any smell like vinegar -- you are losing it, fast! If YOU can smell it, then chances are that ALL your other movie film -- stored with the movie film that you CAN smell -- already has it, too. Run, don't walk, to digitize your movie film. Once Vinegar Syndrome starts, there is no way to reverse it.

Very much OTT, I feel. [Smile]

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