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Author Topic: I need Information!
Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 28, 2011 12:15 PM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello everyone. My name is Grant Fitzgerald and I am a Film Production Freshman at Huntington University in Indiana. I recently became very interested in 8mm projectors when my schools library had a sale and I bought a Technicolor 8mm Cartridge Projector for $1 and a bunch of cartridges for $.10 each.

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These cartridges aren't films but rather sill short How To's.

After I got this I became obsessed with looking up 8mm projectors and now I really want to get one. So since I don't don't know what to do I thought I would ask a few questions.

1)What Projector should I start with? (I am on a college budget and would like to not spend much more then $100. Also I would like to start with a super 8mm sound projector, unless you suggest I do something else.)

2)What are some things I need to know before purchasing projectors and films? (I guess I just need to know basic stuff. I really don't know much at all about film projectors and film. For instance, when buying films is there any protection or cleaning actions you suggest?)

3)Does anyone know if I can buy actually films for a cartridge projector?

4)Where do you suggest I buy films from?

5)Am I able to buy full length features?

6) Any other information? Some brief history lessons?

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted October 28, 2011 12:54 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First ... nice to see that old machine, I remember those in my schools "hobby shop".

Now, onto the projector ...

I would suggest that you go with either a Eumig, as, whether you go higher or lower end in thier models, the Eumig's were well put together projectors that tensd to be very kind to your films.

Second choice would be to go with the ELMO's, preferrably the higher end on these, 1200 models. These do tend to go for top dollars as a general rule, but they are well worth it ansd along with the Eumig's, are the "mustangs" of the super 8 projector world.

I would suggest against going for the myriad of cheaper projectors out there, as, if you do in fact have the super 8 "bug", (which I'm happy to have and love being "contagious'!)
you will inevitably be unimpressed with cheaper brand name projectors, and will inevitably move up to a higher grade projector. Why waste the time and dollars on a cheapo.

Besides, some of the models of these Eumig and Elmo's can go for rediculously low prices.

2)What are some things I need to know before purchasing projectors and films? (I guess I just need to know basic stuff. I really don't know much at all about film projectors and film. For instance, when buying films is there any protection or cleaning actions you suggest?)

Get background info on how the well cared for the projector has been. Many seller, (on ebay for instance) get the projector from thier dead granpa and Gawd knows what kind of shape it is in. Go with, to be quite safe, with a professional projector repairman or seller, but also find out from him what process he goes through to fix the projectors.

When it comes to film, always do your best to find out what kind of film stcok the film print is on you wish to buy. This forum is a wealth of information from collectors that that pretty much pinpoint as to whether the desired print is on Agfa, LPP, Fuji, or the dreaded red/pink eastman color stock.

3)Does anyone know if I can buy actually films for a cartridge projector?

No, don't bother to, these little cartridges are hard to find and in most cases, you'll only run into educational films instead of the fun "Hollywood" films.

4)Where do you suggest I buy films from?

Ebay isn't a bad choice, as long as you do your research on the prints, and, as stated above, feel free to ask the collectors on the forum. There are professionals dealers, but always keep in mind that they have a mark-up on everything they sell, though some sellers are pretty reliable and fair. I cannot suggest Steve Osbourne of "Reel Image" too much, as he is very fair and as a new customer, will give you suprisingly good deals on films. Most of the sellers are in the UK, so remember the mark up from US dollars to pounds.

5)Am I able to buy full length features?

Most definitely and considering what title you desire, it may be costly or incredibly reasonable in price. You will amazed as to just how many super 8 features were printed! Extra plous info: Derann is almost always a surefire good buy, as they, starting in 1980 or so, usede only low fade stock. The releases before them can be on fading stock however.

6) Any other information? Some brief history lessons?

Good heavens, we'll save the history lesson for a future post!
HAHA!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 28, 2011 01:55 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi grant,

The Technicolor projector was exclusively made for technicolor cartridges as you have now.

This projector will not accept any other cartridges brand (such as Fairchild) or different film length although from the same brand.

Your Technicolor 600 (I think) only for max 200 feet film (inside the cartridge), while there was also 400 feet film marketed by Technicolor placed in bigger cartridge, you need Technicolor 1000 or 1200 projector.

Therefore this kind of projector is not convenient for anyone... well what a hack for $1 [Big Grin]

To start with film collecting, my suggestion is to find cheaper and lighter projector. I believe many here will jump to say "buy Elmo, buy Sankyo, buy Fumeo (!! [Razz] ) ..."

But that will be more than your budget of $100.

You can still get a sound projector for around $50 to $75 if you hunt for Chinon or GAF or Minolta.

ps: a light projector does mean also cheaper in shipment.

Try Ebay and you will find abundant of cheap projectors there.

My second advise, only focus with super 8mm projector. Do not attempt to by Standard 8mm or Regular 8mm projector although they are cheap but less film available in the market for that format.

There are dual projector (can play both super 8mm and standard 8mm format) but it will go higher than $100 for a sound one.

pss: many sellers don't know about the projector they are selling and only mark them as "8mm projector". Please find an advise from this forum if they are actually super 8mm projector.

Films are abundant, you can find here or Ebay.

Many of them will just look like your screen shot above, i.e marked as full color but looks so faded (pinkish). Beside many of them also digested (edited) into only several minutes from originally 90 minutes presentation. We have to deal with that.

If you want to have films with better color and full duration, than you have to prepare more money like the one is sold here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jason-And-Argonauts-Ray-Harryhausen-8mm-film-Feature-length-film-/200665195268?pt=US_Film&hash=item2eb893e304

good luck,

--------------------
Winbert

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 28, 2011 02:09 PM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks you guys so much!

This just leads me to more questions though.

1) What are Agfa, LPP, Fuji?

2)What is Derenn and how do I find their films?

3) Do I need to get larger reels?

4) How should I store my film to keep it in its best shape and I have seen there are cleaning suplies for film, should I get something like this?

I just want to keep my things in the best shape possible and to get the best quality stuff. You guys have been very helpful so far.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 28, 2011 02:23 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1) What are Agfa, LPP, Fuji?

This is type of film stock that are used after 1980s. Because they are more recent (and new technology) color film printed on this stock will still have good color even after 20 years. Look at the above link on Ebay.

Before 1980, most film were printed on Eastman (Kodak) or Kodak SP or 3M etc which have faded to pink by now.

However, because 1980 was the time when 8mm films were going down, therefore less films were found in the market now, hence the price is rather high. You will find mostly those 1970s film on Ebay.

2)What is Derenn and how do I find their films?

Derann is the name of company releasing film from 1970 until recently closed down in 2011. Most of Derann releases before 1980 will be faded as other films. But after 1980, Derann uses better stock (AGFA, LPP) so they still have good color until now,

3) Do I need to get larger reels?

Depend on what film you have. If you start with collecting digest, then you won't need that because many digests are spooled in 400 feet reel (7 inch diameter) or even 200 feet (5 inch diameter). While most of cheaper projectors can take until 600 feet reel (8 inch diameter).

4) How should I store my film to keep it in its best shape and I have seen there are cleaning suplies for film, should I get something like this?

Place your film in vertical position in plastic can or in their original box (cardboard).

When you are going to more serious business than you will need that. For beginner, just deal with what you have now and do not need to care so much. Even I have been collecting for 20 years, I don't have ones [Wink]

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Winbert

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted October 28, 2011 03:08 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Grant,
If you're mainly interested in features, you might want to think about going into 16mm collecting - much greater availability, though more expensive.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 28, 2011 03:47 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike, Grant wrote and described himeself as

quote:
(I am on a college budget and would like to not spend much more then $100. Also I would like to start with a super 8mm sound projector
quote:
I guess I just need to know basic stuff.


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Winbert

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted October 28, 2011 05:05 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, I'm quite aware of that. He also said:
quote:
...unless you suggest I do something else.)
which is why I made a suggestion.
[Smile]

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 28, 2011 05:06 PM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would like to get into 16mm eventually. Once I know what I am doing. I just don't know much at all and I thought I heard that people have gotten full length features on their Super 8mm.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 28, 2011 05:18 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Grant,

If you start with super 8mm, you will start from the basic of collecting, i.e know how to keep the film, what is scratch, what is VS, splicing film, etc, etc.

Through 8mm, you will find cheaper price for a title because you can buy digest (edited) version of a full length which can cost $$.

A digest of well known movies such as Close Encounter, Alien, Dirty Dozen, for example, can be bought for $5-15 (depend on the condition).

On 16mm, we can also find digest but very very rare (only few I can say) and mostly not for the well known movies like I mentioned above. You need to buy a full feature and it will cost $100+ for such title.

Full length feature is also available on super 8mm, but as Mike say above, 16mm has more titles. However, for recent titles such as Spiderman, Die Hard, Speed, Master of Commander, Fugitive, Toy Story, Bugs Live, Ice Age, etc, etc....., it is easier to get on super 8mm as long as you have money in your wallet... [Wink]

Now you can see where you need to start for a film collecting hobby [Wink]

Good luck!

--------------------
Winbert

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Gian Luca Mario Loncrini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1948
From: Verona (Italy)
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted October 28, 2011 05:49 PM      Profile for Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Author's Homepage   Email Gian Luca Mario Loncrini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
) What are Agfa, LPP, Fuji?

This is type of film stock that are used after 1980s

All low fade stocks were introduced in 1982, but Agfa and Fuji were already (though fading) used before [Wink] .

--------------------
I remember when I was (super) 8 years old...

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 28, 2011 05:59 PM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Winbert for the explanation!

Would you all agree that ebay is the best place to get a projector?

If so for what are the relative price of models that I should go for? (So I don't spend more money then I should.)

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 28, 2011 06:04 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Gian...!

Grant,

For your last question, yes you go to Ebay (or check your local thrift store/flea market/garage sale to avoid shipping cost that can reach $25/projector within the USA)

For the brand, I have mentioned above:

quote:

You can still get a sound projector for around $50 to $75 if you hunt for Chinon or GAF or Minolta.

I have bought a Minolta 7100 sound projector for $9 and a Chinon 330MV sound projector for $25, both from Ebay.

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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William Mouroukas
Film Handler

Posts: 49
From: Sydney - Australia
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 28, 2011 06:09 PM      Profile for William Mouroukas   Email William Mouroukas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I also have a question. I stopped buying S8 by 1980 but I still have every print I bought. I screened some Disney reels a couple of weeks ago and only one was going pink; "Day at Disneyland" and as I recall it was heading that way about 15-20 years ago. After reading the comments above I suppose I've done the right thing storage wise.
How can I tell what kind of stock was used on my Disney reels and should I expect them to be going pink/fading anytime soon?

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John Skujins
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Greensboro, NC, USA
Registered: Mar 2009


 - posted October 28, 2011 06:27 PM      Profile for John Skujins   Email John Skujins   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Keep in mind, Grant, that some projectors will be no good if they still have their original belts. Elmo belts notoriously turn to goo over time, so make sure if you get an Elmo that it has replaced belts.

Both of my Chinons, however, still have their original belts and work great. Different companies used different materials for their belts, apparently.

Be careful and good luck!

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010


 - posted October 28, 2011 07:19 PM      Profile for Pasquale DAlessio   Email Pasquale DAlessio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Grant

Welcome to the forum! I sent you an email.

PatD

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 28, 2011 09:15 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hello grant welcome.... ahh another fellow minnesotan!

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 29, 2011 03:56 PM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
New Question!

Where am I able to buy full length features that I have seen in some of your collection photos? (For instance I have seen Snow White, Aladdin, Little Mermaid, Fantasia)

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 29, 2011 08:48 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean   Email Winbert Hutahaean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You can check at some dealers. List of dealers can be found here:

Super 8mm Film Distributors and Sellers

For example: Paul Foster Films

Also on Ebay or sometime people also offer here in this forum.

--------------------
Winbert

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 30, 2011 12:09 AM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there a way to play the sound out the projectors into speakers?

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted October 30, 2011 04:39 AM      Profile for Martin Jones   Email Martin Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most sound projectors will have sockets for the direct connection of external speakers, cutting out the internal ones automatically.
Some will also have outputs to feed external (HIFI) amplifiers so as to use their speakers.
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 30, 2011 10:41 AM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ive read that some projectors can only take up to 600' or 400'. What does that mean?

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted October 30, 2011 11:13 AM      Profile for Mal Brake   Email Mal Brake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
400ft and 600ft refer to the maximum size spool the projector can accommodate. Depending on film stock, a 400ft spool will hold about 18minutes of film at 24 frames per second (the speed of sound films) and 600 ft spools about 25-28 minutes, a little more with very thin film stock.
The very basic 8mm projectors will take 400ft. 600ft is more common on the majority of projectors, there are projectors that will hold 800ft, 1200ft, 1600ft and some top-end m/c's can take 2200 -2400ft spools.

A lot of the later features were supplied on (say for example) 3 X 600ft spools so I would suggest finding a projector with that capacity as a minimum. (Some earlier releases were issued as 4,5 or occasionally 6 X 400ft

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I'm gonna live forever or die trying

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: #399R K.O.A. Mountian Home, ID. 83647
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted October 31, 2011 02:34 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage   Email Osi Osgood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just a little more to add ...

Agfa and Fuji existed before the 1980's. Some Fuji stock from before the 1980's will have went purplish. However, in general, it does hold up well and much better than other stocks from the 1970's. Agfa has existed for the longest time and I have some agfa prints (on standard 8mm) from the 1950's and it still holds it color.

... even some Eastman stock holds the color well, (before the 1980's) however, in the case of Eastman, THAT is the exception.

If you do run into a non low fade color print from before the 1980's, and you want to keep the (hopefully) good color intact, I would suggest you take that feature print, place it in a freezer bag with at least two "selica gel" packets (this keeps the moisture away from the print) and store it in your fridge. This will not stop any fade, but it will bring it to a stand-still. I have been back into collecting since about 2003, and th3e first print I bought when I got back into this was an eastman print, with a slight fade, and to this day, it hasn't changed a bit. I have, however, another eastman print I bought at the same time (that didn't mean as much to me), that had the same aslight level of fade. Left at regular room temperature of 70 or degrees on a shelf, (not in any excessive heat) and that print is now beet red.

... so, refrigeration does make a difference. It is no coincidence that many a photography shop, which provides undeveloped color film, will keep the film in a refridgeration unit.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Grant Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Owatonna, MN
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted October 31, 2011 04:20 PM      Profile for Grant Fitzgerald   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do you need to keep it in the fridge for permanent storage?

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