8mm Forum: Help needed from ALL forum members

8mm Forum

my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home

next oldest topic

next newest topic

»	8mm Forum » 8mm Forum » Help needed from ALL forum members (Page 1)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3

Author

Topic: Help needed from ALL forum members

Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 679
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005

posted January 16, 2017 10:14 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Right guys, this is the question.

What would you film collectors say is an acceptable amount of splices for a supposedly "Excellent" condition modern Derann print, 4 x 600' mounted on two 1200' spools, let's say at a cost to you of £260.00.

I would like as much feedback as possible with this please.

| IP: Logged

Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 16, 2017 10:22 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

No more than 2, to splice endtails together - All else should be intact I think - Cheers, Shorty - If this is a rarae or wanted feature, then by all means

| IP: Logged

Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 679
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005

posted January 16, 2017 10:26 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Thanks Shorty, I will reveal more at a later time, keep the input coming guys please.

| IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted January 16, 2017 10:35 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Well, depends on the type of splice, but I'm being Devil's Advocate.

Brand new Derann prints were sold as potentially containing lab slices.

As the lab stock used was unpredictable, a lab slice could occur once or even twice in just a single 200ft.

Sorry, but fact.

As we know, Derann would always exchange if the customer was unhappy.

Del, what type of splice are you seeing? Some of the lab slices could be pretty darn messy.

| IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 16, 2017 10:38 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Yes, my Derann print of the trailer to Saving Private Ryan has a lab splice about 1 minute into the trailer! I don't see splices as objectionable as long as they are infrequent.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

| IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted January 16, 2017 10:46 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Yes, Paul, I remember my brand new trailer of "Evita" having such a bad lab splice that it lost gate.

Return, or simply cut out the 2 frames of mess?

Also, my original "Lion King" print part 1; two lab splices...I returned and received a new print with apologies. Even though the original ran sort of
OK.

Del, could you describe or photo the splices?

May not be the seller's fault?

| IP: Logged

Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted January 16, 2017 11:00 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I would say one per 600' in the content I could live with. I have some prints with lab splices that are hardly noticable when screening. But if some content is missing then I would be leary.

| IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted January 16, 2017 11:45 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

i would agree with that, one per 600ft anything else is what has been done by the previous collector, other than leaders and tails re-spliced if it was on large reels and put back to originals. [Wink]

[Wink]

| IP: Logged

Stuart Reid
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 720
From: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Feb 2009

posted January 16, 2017 12:02 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Yep, 1 per 600ft would sound acceptable. Are there any other print issues? Scratches, wear?

| IP: Logged

Mark Mander
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1236
From: Dunstable ,Bedfordshire.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted January 16, 2017 01:27 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I'd say no splices if it was in excellent condition and £260, where the film's joined is fine though.Mark

--------------------
Elmo GS1200 1.0 lens
Elmo ST1200HD 1.1 lens
Sankyo 800 1.0 lens
Elmo 16CL
Elf NT1

| IP: Logged

Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 679
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005

posted January 16, 2017 02:51 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Well guys I've watched the print in question and lost count of the number of splices to both 1200' spools, I will make a detailed inspection tomorrow but if I was hazarding a guess I would say around 10 per 1200' spool and none of those were lab splices (I can accept those). It's clear the guy has cut the film into sections to re record it into Spanish and then spliced it back together again. There was also a lot of I would call it speckled dust and I mean a lot, not in the EXCELLENT condition the seller has stated and no there was NO mention of any splices in his description whatsoever, it's now in the hands of ebay, has anyone else had a similar experience and what was the outcome?

P.S. fantastic feedback, much appreciated [Wink]

[Wink]

| IP: Logged

Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 16, 2017 04:32 PM

Author's Homepage

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

He's about 16 splices too high. Obviously, due to his re recording antics he or somebody must have been doing it in 10 minute segments.

Other people's splicing skills or lack of them used to irk me too

[Mad]

[Mad]

[Mad]

Use the right splicer have decent eyesight and use the right tape (yes I did say tape not GLUE ) and you shouldn't technically see the join especially as he is re joining without removing frames.

On Ebay front if you are unhappy or can't live with it press for full refund. Photograph a few splices doubt ebay staff would know what a splice was, He will have to pay for return shipping of his masterpiece .

Slap it into him for doing a sloppy DIY job. [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted January 16, 2017 04:55 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Obviously far too many splices for a film described in excellent condition, but although you paid £260 you dont give the title. This of course can make a big difference value wise but does not excuse the poor description.

| IP: Logged

Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 679
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005

posted January 17, 2017 03:55 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Great point Mike, I will reveal the exact print and more details later when I sort this out with ebay as the seller has point blank refused me a return saying the film had an acceptable amount of splices. Hence the asking you good people your valuable opinions on what is actually acceptable.

My take is this, excellent means no excess splices, meaning I would expect 1 for the two 600' spools to be spliced together and that is it, as mentioned I would expect a near perfect film, I could live with the odd 1 more in case of damage or whatever but that would be it. More than that, it is not excellent and yes it devalues the film in my opinion.

| IP: Logged

Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 17, 2017 04:26 AM

Email Alan Rik

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

If I am purchasing a print I expect maybe 2 or 3 splices on a 1200ft reel. Head leader, tail, and one in the middle. Anything more than that should be noted in the auction. Many splices is not a fun find. Even if the splice is good you can always hear it when it goes pass the gate.

| IP: Logged

Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015

posted January 17, 2017 04:42 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I'd expect an excellent print to be just that. Splices mean the film has been broken or cut and that's not acceptable on an asking price of £260.00. Most of us would find odd splices unwanted but acceptable, especially if it's a must have title that's scarce. Problem now is that as prints change hands from people in the know with well maintained machines to beginners/careless people who don't even clean their gates regularly, the excellent will, over time become downgraded. In this instance I'd be asking for your money back.

--------------------
Dave

| IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted January 17, 2017 04:57 AM

Edit/Delete Post

As I've already said to Del and in slight opposition to what Alan says above, I'd be happy to accept a splice from re spooling from 800ft reels down to 600ft ones again also.

I would notify the potential buyer of this however.

I find its only realistic nowadays to expect some re spooling to have taken place over the years to accommodate the various capacities of the various machines these films have most likely been used upon over the years, by this late stage of the game

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

| IP: Logged

Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 17, 2017 05:43 AM

Author's Homepage

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

The number of splices being talked about is way above acceptable. Ask for a full refund and push with either eBay or Paypal. It is like pink prints don't accept or buying a collector cd with smudge marks or marmalade on it.

No matter what the title is its not worth £260 for somebody's botch job.

| IP: Logged

Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted January 17, 2017 07:38 AM

Email Brian Fretwell

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

That number is only acceptable on a re-edited Derann UA composite of digests of a film that couldn't be sold as concurrent parts, as far as I am concerned.

| IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted January 17, 2017 10:46 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I would certainly have expected that amount of splices to have been mentioned in the discription.

I think the sale is unfair otherwise.

| IP: Logged

Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 679
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005

posted January 17, 2017 10:59 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Well guys, I've gone through the print again and there is a total of 21 splices over the two reels, 13 on reel 1 and 8 on reel 2. The seller refused me a return stating it was an acceptable amount of splices (not that he actually mentioned any at all), just waiting for my day in ebay's court now.

| IP: Logged

Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted January 17, 2017 11:26 AM

Edit/Delete Post

I entirely agree with Rob and I wish you luck with your appeal.

I'd be very very surprised if it wasn't found in your favour Del.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

| IP: Logged

Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted January 17, 2017 11:59 AM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Well Mike I would take issue with you on that point. I would pay a LOT more than
£260 for a very splicey print of 'Hats Off'😉

| IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted January 17, 2017 12:08 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I tell you what, if that guy says its an acceptable amount of splices theirs only one word i would use to describe the rest of his collection if thats typical of a film from it,
poo!!
That is not acceptable for £260 when its described as excellent condition, its been cut up how is that excellent?
Surely ebay must agree that "it is not as described", had that have been one of my listings i would say if it had splices, even if just the leader & tail. This is the sort of listing that makes people lose any faith they have left in ebay. The administrators have a lot to answer for.(of ebay i mean [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

[Wink]

)

| IP: Logged

Del Phillipson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 679
From: Derbyshire, England
Registered: Dec 2005

posted January 17, 2017 12:34 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

will post the outcome next week, then reveal all, film, seller etc. He has sold others, would love to know if they arrived in the same state, I would have thought so with them also being re recorded into Spanish.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3

Move Topic

Delete Topic

next oldest topic

next newest topic

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2