8mm Forum: Well, THIS person has a low opinion of super 8!

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Topic: Well, THIS person has a low opinion of super 8!

Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 08, 2017 05:17 PM

The Robe had big tits unfortunately they were attached to Victor Mature

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 08, 2017 05:25 PM

Not the same somehow! [Big Grin]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 08, 2017 05:30 PM

Well at least he shaved.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 08, 2017 05:33 PM

So do I! 😁😁😁

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 08, 2017 06:03 PM

Every day and when I'm finished I can start all over again. Yet on my head I am rerunning the Alamo. A few die every day but we will survive.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 08, 2017 06:07 PM

You've now well and truly lost me and most of your audience no doubt Micheal!

A pint of what you're on mate!

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 826
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 08, 2017 06:16 PM

I think Spice is the chosen tipple for some guaranteed to knock you out for 24 hours particularly popular in Wrexham . I'm not talking Old Spice either.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 08, 2017 06:23 PM

???????

We will leave it there eh Mike! [Confused]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted March 09, 2017 11:45 AM

Andrew we were "had" in the sense that I wanted to enjoy
the film with all colours intact for my lifetime.
Not the life of the film.

In fact some of the advertising hype at the time was
something like ... " Buy and enjoy this film for life in
sparkling Technicolor. "

Oh yea ? Well a half truth claim as far as I am concerned.

THEY knew the prints would fade in time but they never claimed
that in the adverts.

After all it was common knowledge at the time in the industry
that using certain film stocks would fade in time.
Yet the distributors continued printing on the stocks that
would fade while charging ludicrous inflated rip off prices.

[Wink]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 09, 2017 12:12 PM

I've always wondered about just how much super 8 providers knew about color fade. Now, insiders within the film lab industry obviously knew about eastman fade, (they found that even by the early 60's, eastman was already starting to look "iffy"), and i'm betting that no one, including collectors had any idea that the films they were buying would fade so quickly ...

hence, the storing of them in warm environments.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted March 09, 2017 12:31 PM

Yes Osi industry insiders did know about film fade.
There was even a warning about it printed in an article
in the now defunct original Movie Maker magazine.
Stephen Spielberg and Martin Scorsese were among those
pointing out the dangers of it and that it should be prevented before it was to late. Some listened others did not.

Movie Maker even warned that our 8mm package movies were
in danger of fading in time.
It was around then I stopped buying new prints unless they
were on low fade stocks.

A great injustice was done to monochrome prints by printing
them on colour stocks that were prone to fade.
This included 35mm and 16mm and even 70mm as we now know.

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler

Posts: 339
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2016

posted March 09, 2017 05:35 PM

I can't remember the name of the comic but one of his routines talked about his aging father.

Being a good and caring son, he tried to visit his father frequently and help him out with tasks whenever he could. So one day he stopped by his farther's house whereupon his father handed him a 30 year old broken toilet seat and a receipt.

"Take this back the hardware store and get a refund. It's got a lifetime warranty and the POS broke."

To be clear, I'm not trying to draw a comparison between toilet seats and Super 8!

What I am saying is that a lifetime warranty is not a guarantee that something will literally last a lifetime. It is a calculation by the manufacturer that quality is good enough and the frequency of valid claims low enough that it's worth their while to make such a warranty.

And they will put stipulations in the warranty to tilt things in their favor: Must be the original owner. Damage must not be the result of improper use or care. Must provide proof of purchase, etc.

Going back to the toilet seat example, the manufacturer knew that toilet seat didn't need to last anywhere near a lifetime. A given toilet seat of reasonable quality would likely be replaced well before it broke, or the owner would move to another home leaving the toilet seat behind. And even if one did break, the likelihood of someone actually saving the receipt and returning it was exceptionally small unless it broke within a few weeks or months.

So yes, the Super 8 packaging industry knew that their films would not last a lifetime. They only had to last long enough that the owner gave it to somebody else, lost the receipt, or just lost interest and threw it away.

So the term "lifetime" gets watered down to mean: "longer than most people would care enough to bother"

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted March 09, 2017 05:50 PM

And already 30 plus years into their existence, I don't believe anyone can claim they haven't had their money's worth!

Certainly I will never complain on this front anyhow.
I'd be more inclined to try and sue the companies that created machines that destroyed perfectly decent and relatively new prints well before the time they should ever had needed a major overhaul!

That's a far bigger issue worthy of complaint in my book and we ain't talking thousands of miles on the clock here with this issue! [Mad]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Patrick Feuerstein
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: St Savin, France
Registered: Mar 2016

posted March 10, 2017 04:00 AM

The problem is the same for 70mm, 35mm and 16mm. It's always possible to make new prints from the neg if it's not damaged. The fact is that collectors want to see their collection (including me! but I changed) and keep their films in their flat. The temperature is generally about 20° centigrade or more. It's too much, the best is near 13°. Another point, did the delivery truck(s) stayed under the sun too long? How was the storage before you ordered you film? I bought a lot of films during the 80's and the colors a perfect (better than the DVD i.e. the "Barkley's of Broadway" from Ken). In fact I had a few turning colors specially prints from Italy (probably problem of storage) even a vinegar! The brown plot on B/W print is called oxydizing and is due, in fact, by a defective fixing treatment at the lab. I've a friend who bought a brand new print from Derann with that fault. I even had a reversal movie which the emulsion left when we rubbed with the finger!

Patrick
Former film archivist-restorer (ret.)

[ March 10, 2017, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: Patrick Feuerstein ]

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted March 10, 2017 08:20 AM

I have a complete print of The Smallest Show On Earth from
Derann on Super 8mm.

Its on Black and White stock and suffer from those oxidization spots.
I keep it as a sample of how bad it gets.

I also have another of the same title from Derann.
It was printed on colour stock and the Black and White has turned
a sepia tone and looks a lot softer. I keep it as a sample.

I also have it on 16mm Black and White stock and apart from some
scratches it looks fine. No oxidization at all. [Smile]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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