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Author Topic: Mr.jackbenny ... ebay "buyer" info?
Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 24, 2018 04:58 PM      Profile for Rob Koeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sure Osi, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for clarifying that!
I do remember watching that video, so no need to get that back up. A random thought while reading your reply above was, that I hope you choose the point to make your cut more sensibly then randomly around 600 foot, though! I would hate to receive a print with an unnecessary cut somewhere mid-scene; but I'm sure I don't have to tell you that. I do seem to remember that for demo purposes, you only demo-ed about 200 foot, never mind stretching it to 1200 foot, just to see it in operation for a full 600 foot reel would be awesome! But only if time allows, of course.

Another completely random thought, and I should probably start a new threat for it, but does anyone know if there were ever Columbo episodes released on S8?

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted May 25, 2018 11:09 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think there was any Columbo on super 8, but I've been wrong before, (quite recently, in fact! [Smile] )

as for the "core-gate" I remember that ... watching members demanding that I change my ebay auctions and that I was somehow fraudulent in my descriptions, because I stated "core" as part of my descriptions because there wasn't a round piece of plastic on my wound films and I sat back as I read all that thinking ...

"Are grown men actually going on about this?!"

I also noticed that no women who are a part of this forum ever chimed in ...

Gee, women REALLY ARE smarter then men! [Smile]

(there ya go, shorter than my usual post)

Gotta go, I have a doctors appointment!

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted May 25, 2018 11:27 AM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob was correct, it really doesn't ever end. Not at fault and any man that questions is dumb. Ok, have it your way. [Smile]

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007


 - posted May 25, 2018 02:16 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm really struggling because it's probably better I keep my mouth shut or fingers still. However, having had pleasant dealings with Osi over the years, as well as watching these discussions, I'm going to put my 2c in, and hopefully in a completely non-inflammatory way. I mean no unkindness, but just to clear the air with some truthful and direct comments, if you'll kindly indulge me. No response is necessary, even.

First, Osi, I have no idea why you refunded Steven 4.25 instead of the reportedly agreed upon 7.17, and maybe it was an honest mistake. If so, you should come clean and admit as much. Does the difference make you a ripoff artist? Of course not, but it does create ill feelings and mistrust, and a WHOLE lot of forum discussion that besmirches two people whom otherwise we'd hope to hold in impeccable regard.

Second, unreeling films for sale on eBay (and let's note here that you properly and rightly disclose in your auctions that there is no reel with such films), cutting them into 600' lengths when necessary, and then selling Elmo reels (etc) at substantial prices after the fact, is your right, of course. Osi, if you feel you can make a better bottom line that way, that's your privilege. However, I will never buy a film from you knowing that such is your normal practice. This is not stated with animosity, nor hostility, but just to put the honest truth out there that some of us will avoid such sales because the film is handled that way, and because pretty much no other seller makes you find reels for your purchases. And it's not like I don't have spares.

Third, mr.jackbenny is a ripoff artist, I think we all agree on that. I'm sorry for anyone who has to deal with those shenanigans, and his reported actions are truly that, and worse.

Now, I got that off my chest, thank you. I wish all of you, including Osi and Steve, a wonderful Memorial Day holiday weekend as we commemorate the profound sacrifice of those who gave their all, which enables us to the freedom to enjoy silly stuff like home movies. Long live Super 8!

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Steven Haines
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Registered: Nov 2017


 - posted May 25, 2018 03:44 PM      Profile for Steven Haines   Email Steven Haines   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First, thanks, Osi, for the apology with regards to the feedback mixup.

I really don't wish to spend much more time discussing this matter, especially since it's over a comically small $2.92. All I will say, for those reading who are not privy to the details, is that before purchasing the items, you, Osi, agreed to ship both for a combined total of $4.50 and refund the difference in what I was automatically charged based on the rates included in the listing. The total shipping cost I was charged was $11.67 (for two commercials), so, even with the $4.25 refund, I still paid $7.42 in shipping.

When you quote my saying "I'm still baffled that you can't understand the arithmetic of how you ripped me off," that's in response to my repeatedly explaining in plain (but I believe polite) English how the numbers don't add up. You at first disregarded my request for the remaining refund with some nonsense about ebay secretly keeping the difference. Moreover, I asked you a simple question twice, which was just to tell me what the total is that you received for shipping. And you didn't answer it either time, because that will clearly show that you're not honoring your originally promised shipping price.

I really do appreciate the rational tone of your responses in this thread, Osi. But, based on this particular ebay experience, it strikes me as dishonest, or, at the very least, confused enough that it creates an unnecessary headache for me.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 25, 2018 04:58 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is an exhibit when 1 topic post is growing into 3 or even more topics...now it confuses me.

"Mr.jackbenny" is happy now because he is no longer the focus of this discussion.

--------------------
Winbert

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted May 26, 2018 04:56 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's an ongoing pattern, which only very few of us appear to be able to see.

Anyway, I do have a suggestion here, radical though it may sound...

Osi, perhaps you could just refund the $2.92 to Steven. This would appear to be the honest thing to do...or am I being too simplistic?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted May 26, 2018 09:56 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Michael.

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Maurice

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted May 26, 2018 10:45 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to end this all ...

There was never an agreement to pay back 7.17 to Steven, merely a 4.50, which I didn't have to do in the first place but I offered to do if he bought the auctions. I was off by 25 cents on it, (when I sent the paypal I just forgot and put in the wrong amount), but there was never any agreement to pay back 7.17.

Ebay does keep back a percentage of the shipping, but I don't know exactly what that is, but it is miniscule, unless they stopped that policy. It is (or was) called the "FVF" (final value fee), and from what I've read, ebay takes not just the ten percent off the actual selling price, but an addtional 3 percent in other "fees".

The thing that has amazed me about this whole discussion, is that I would assume that before a person buys something, they check out the shipping in the first place. I personally didn't realize that one of the auctions was still at a 7.25 dollar shipping, (as I had went through all the auctions and lowered them to 4.50, or so I thought, as all these 7 dollar shippings were on the commercials and I specifically went thru all my
commercials and changed them).

But obviously, Stephen (or is it Steven? I've lost track), had looked at the auctions and had seen the shipping and therefore asked me if I, before he bought the items, would lower the shipping for him. I said yes (made "contract") and in fact paid back that 4.25 within minutes of him buying the commercials and then, after having bought the commercials and me having sent them off, he then asked for the addtional 2.92, (going beyond "contract). Thats what "wrankled" me. Didn't he see the 7.25 shipping on one of them? It had to have been there and if it wasn't and it said 4.50 and then after the sale, was 7.25, THEN there's a big issue with ebay.

As for the $2.92, I see no reason to reward Stephen for his Bad feedback by giving him another $2.92.

Thanks for those nice word there earlier on, 99 per cent or more of my ebay sales are always pleasant on both ends. [Smile]

Oh yeah, before I forgot, Happy Memorial day folks!

[ May 26, 2018, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Osi Osgood ]

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted May 26, 2018 12:21 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a little unclear.

Just to clear this up in my mind, Osi - when you "made contract", is it true that you agreed to ship both films for a combined total of $4.50 and refund the difference in what Steven was automatically charged based on the rates included in the listing?

Just as an aside, what Ebay takes is immaterial here. Ebay fees are the sellers issue, not the buyers.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 26, 2018 06:44 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It seems to me if Osi is writing something some members will gather just like ants found sugar. [Razz]

quote:
Ebay fees are the sellers issue, not the buyers.

No Mike...not exactly like that since Ebay has set what so called final value fees (FVF) which include the amount of shipping fee.

So for example an item was sold for $10 and the shipping was quoted for $20, therefor the Ebay FVF will be a (certain) percentage taken from $30 ($10+$20). Says the percentage was 5% therefore the FVF is $1.5.

If the seller admitted that the actual shipping cost was $19. Buyer CANNOT ask for $1 refund because the seller has been cut $1.5 by Ebay which that cut include $1 from the shipping cost.

That is at least my experience with Ebay.

I am not taking any side here...but am just trying to make it fair.

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted May 28, 2018 06:12 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for that clarification, Winbert.

Hopefully, Osi will be able to shed light on the subject when he answers my question.

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted May 28, 2018 07:00 AM      Profile for David Ollerearnshaw   Author's Homepage   Email David Ollerearnshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So the real bad guy here is evilbay? How can they really charge a percentage for something they don't supply.

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 28, 2018 08:09 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, this has been in place for more than 5 years. I have chekced my old post and in 2013 I have written about this Ebay's bad practise here:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=004285

ps: I have now remembered that the fees taken from shipping is 10% (not 5% as my prediction above)

I should re-quote what I have written there:

quote:
It is ebay who makes everything to beocme more difficult:

1. Ebay, apart from the final value fee, is now also taking the final shipping fee (10%). This becomes worst after what Joerg mentioned above, the paypal fee would also apply to money sent for shipping (5%). Now for me who is always being honest with the shipping cost by putting a shipping calculator from the Post Office must increase 30% from whatever appears on the calculator (ps: because 15% VAT also does not appear on calculator) . So if calculator gives $40 I have actually need $52 to avoid I am loosing money because of shipping to overseas. One or two buyers say I am cheating. Man...! :-(

So since the above rules, especially if we get paid by paypal which creates another fee...there should no actual shipping cost be quoted in the description because seller will loose money... [Razz]

Cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted May 28, 2018 10:15 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is that why many sellers on eBay now say "Free Postage"?

--------------------
Maurice

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015


 - posted May 28, 2018 11:53 AM      Profile for David Hardy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It just goes to demonstrate what a scam Ebay really is when they take a fee for postage from the seller.

Its a diabolical liberty and bloody swindle in my opinion.

One reason i have very rarely sold anything on that money grabbing site. [Mad]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 28, 2018 02:45 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Is that why many sellers on eBay now say "Free Postage"?
There is no such "free postage" because the postage cost will be present at the starting price...and Ebay still get the fees no matter the postage is inside or outside the price [Wink]

Smart Ebay.... [Big Grin]

--------------------
Winbert

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted May 29, 2018 11:28 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just to quickly answer Micheal ...

The only contract I made with Stephen concerning this sale, was that, if he bought both items, as there was extra shipping with both items combined, I agreed to paypal back to him 4 dollars and some odd cents of the shipping, which I in fact did, as that's only fair and there was a surplus of extra shipping with both auctions combined.

There was no agreement to ship both auctions for a combined 4.50 though I must say, I thought both auctions had a 4.50 shipping on each, so it would have come out to 4.50. It came as a surprise to myself when one of the auctions had a higher shipping.

my big gripe with ebay is that this was a situation where ebay did they're own invoice. it wasn't a situation where Stephen bought them, they show up in my "Sold" section, and I make out the invoice. I don't know the exact time from when the items sold and I noticed them having been sold, but it couldn't have been more than 30 minutes to an hour, as I was still on the internet at that time on that day when Stephen and I had corresponded about me giving some of the shipping amount back.

I really wish ebay would allow the seller and the seller alone to make out the invoice, whether a "buy it now" or just a regular auction ending.

If I had been allowed to make the invoice, I myself would have seen the higher shipping on one of the items, and all this would have never ballooned into this series of posts in the first place, (well, at least not concerning "blinkingbuzzards"). [Frown]

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted May 29, 2018 12:12 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
There was no agreement to ship both auctions for a combined 4.50...
Ah, OK.
Steven seemed fairly specific in his post above that there was such an agreement.

Oh, well!
I guess one of you is mistaken.

Just out of interest though, if you had been permitted to send the invoice rather than ebay, how much would you have charged Steven?

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted May 29, 2018 12:39 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We,, being that I had expected the 4.50 on each auction, I would have sent back just what I did send back, as 4.50 would have been more than enuf to ship both commercials. [Smile]

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted May 29, 2018 04:49 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Just out of interest though, if you had been permitted to send the invoice rather than ebay, how much would you have charged Steven?
If....and if....

An open-ended question for a future debate.... [Big Grin]

Well Michael...I also see a pattern here.... [Wink]

--------------------
Winbert

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted May 30, 2018 02:49 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
We,, being that I had expected the 4.50 on each auction, I would have sent back just what I did send back, as 4.50 would have been more than enuf to ship both commercials.
That's not quite what I asked.
However, I think you've made things fairly clear now.
Thanks, Osi.
[Big Grin]

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Steven Haines
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Registered: Nov 2017


 - posted May 30, 2018 01:53 PM      Profile for Steven Haines   Email Steven Haines   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can't believe I'm still thinking about this matter, but I do feel obligated to add to the absurdity and respond to Osi's most recent posts.
quote:
There was never an agreement to pay back 7.17 to Steven, merely a 4.50, which I didn't have to do in the first place but I offered to do if he bought the auctions. I was off by 25 cents on it, (when I sent the paypal I just forgot and put in the wrong amount), but there was never any agreement to pay back 7.17.
I checked back over my ebay messages, and Osi is right and wrong here. I think at this point it's easiest to just post our messages on the matter, copied in full. Some context: I had initially contacted Osi a couple weeks prior to this communication by pointing out the high postage rate of $7.17 on the one commercial, which seemed exorbitant and not worth it to me. After that, the postage price was not corrected on that particular listing (an oversight, I understand. It happens.), so I had made offers on the items to compensate in my mind for the high shipping charge. This is my next message a week or so after those offers were rejected:
quote:
blinkingbuzzards:

Hi reel-ality,

Hope I haven't offended you with my offers. I respect your prices; it's just that I have trouble spending more than $10 on a commercial unless it's something incredible. Anyway, after I though about it for a while, I'd pay the starting price for Kool-Aid Man and Alpha-Bits ($10 and 13, respectively) if you can combine the shipping and send them at the $4.50 price calculated on the Kool-Aid Man listing (that's to US zip 15120.) So I believe that would be $27.50 total, and I could live with that for 30 second chunks of joy these will bring to myself and audiences. I do think the Alpha-Bits could be a nice addition to my Halloween screening for this year. And Kool-Aid Man, well, it's Kool-Aid Man! If that works for you, I'll use the BIN.

reel-ality:

THAT I can do, but when you do the buy it now, it wikll automatically charge you the full 9.00 shipping for both auctions, so, what i will do, (as, like you said, there's plenty enough to mail these off in the 4.50), I'll go to my paypal and use you're payment/e-mail info to paypal you back the extra 4.50. Does that sound good?

Please note: I have no access to the internet on Sundays, so if you don't hear back from me before then, that is why.

best wishes.

reel-ality

blinkingbuzzards:

lright, sounds good! I just used the BIN. Shipping came out to 11.67 (for whatever reason, Alpha-Bits had a higher shipping cost), so I think that should be $7.17 back. No rush on that if you can't get it today. I appreciate you working with me, and I look forward to the commercials.

blinkingbuzzards:

Hey, thanks for getting that $4.25 refunded right away. So, if you check the invoice, shipping came out to $11.67. Minus the $4.25 that's been refunded, that puts the shipping at $7.42. I know we had agreed on $4.50, so, when you get a chance, a refund on the difference ($2.92, to be precise) would be greatly appreciated! [Smile]

reel-ality:

I'll look at that shipping thing there. i just went through all my auctions and saw that they shipping was too high and so I made sure that all of them were 4.50 for shipping (each item) so I'm kind of curious as to whay it would state over 11 dollars when it should have been no higher than 9.00 dollars for both auctions. I wonder if ebay is "padding they're collective pockets and yours and my expense. At any rate, they went out today and should be with you shortly. Enjoy!

So, when I say "for whatever reason, Alpha-Bits had a higher shipping cost," I'm repeating an issue that I had raised a couple of weeks prior. It was clear that Osi was confused (either genuinely or willfully) when he quoted the incongruous figures of a total of $4.50 shipping after a $4.50 refund. In retrospect, I should have made sure he was very precise on his figures, since he would later pick and choose which of those terms he would honor. I felt that I was clear in my message about the price I expected, and when Osi said "THAT I can do," well, that seemed to me like clear terms of the deal, and I used the BINs with the faith that he would honor his promised refund.

I can't believe how long this loony matter has dragged on, and I don't feel the need to add anything else. Osi, feel free to have the last word on the subject.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted May 30, 2018 02:30 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steven,
It may be the case that Osi genuinely thought that both items were individually listed at $4.50 each for shipping, and that therefore by refunding you $4.50, he would then be honouring your agreement by which you would pay just $4.50 for both items.
Personally speaking I would have felt that the right thing to do would be to refund you the remaining $2.92 and accept the fact that I had inadvertently not changed the shipping quote on the second item to $4.50.

Thanks, for clarifying.

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted May 30, 2018 02:54 PM      Profile for Bill Phelps     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I list items for sale on eBay I can clearly see what the shipping charge is for each item. Not sure why Osi's are always a mystery (to him anyway) I now list things with free shipping to avoid these types of situations.

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