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Topic: Q The Winged Serpent - is yours faded?

Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted July 09, 2008 03:33 AM

I have a print of this 600' release that looks badly faded, although more brown than red, which is very odd considering it's on Agfa polyester stock, so I wondered if any other members here have prints that are the same or better? Considering that Agfa prints from earlier years still look fine, it's hard to find any explanation for this.

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Adrian Winchester

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted July 09, 2008 04:18 AM

Hi Adrian, thats an odd one isn`t it. I thought thye were on LPP as well, must be the odd day the labs had other stuff in, unless a late print, bu then in to really low fade agfe then????
A mystery indeed.
Its not just got agfa later stock spliced on the front( you get that quite a bit) then sp further in, I guess not as you know your onions but sp is jet black on the reverse of the stripe like LPP( of course)
Best Mark.
PS I`m not too sure I`d buy it on LPP though even, !!!!!

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted July 09, 2008 07:36 AM

I loved this film when I first saw it.

I have never known LPP to fade at all ever. I recall Kodak saying it was good for 99 years at least.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 09, 2008 12:12 PM

I know that I'm going to be looking for a print of this in the future, thanks for the heads up on potential bad film stocks.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 09, 2008 12:56 PM

Adrian, as I had a day off today and was wondering what to watch, your post promted me to lace up "Q" and have a look.

I've owned my print for several years and I don't believe it has shown any sign of fading (none of my prints from Derann of that period have either).

What I would say is that it does have a look which I think is common to several relases of that era.

I'm willing to stand corrected but my understanding is that these abridged versions from Derann in the 80s were sourced from 35mm theatrical prints.

In my own personal opinion many 8mm prints sourced in the same way don't have any real detail in the darker areas of the image (although some are better than others, "Gremlins" being a very good example). As a result, black areas of the picture are never anywhere near black, but more like grey, or as in the case of "Q", brown looking as the colour balance may be a little off toward the yellow side. Highlights often look quite burned-out as well.

Whether this was a result of the lab producing 16mm negatives / 8mm prints that attempted to maintained more level of shadow detail, or just the simple result of copying a 35mm release print I wouldn't know, but like I say, it is a look I have found common to a lot of abridged releases of that era (different story for features of course which were usually sourced from negatives!)

Would be interesting to know what the blues are like in your print, Adrian, as mine has reasonable blue levels (albeit a bit on the pale side) in the scenes with a lot of sky, or those scenes with the security guards uniform, or the cops blue uniforms. If your print has too, I think this might just be the way these prints look and not down to fade.

Technical stuff aside, I think this film is hilarious for all the wrong reasons...I dread to think what some of those actors must have been on to produce those performances!!! [Smile]

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 16, 2008 06:49 AM

Adrian, I'm still intrigued to know if your print still has decent blue in it.

Since your post I've been (somewhat nervously) checking all my Derann prints from that same era. Glad to say that they all seem fine!

Here's hoping it is just the quality on this one title!

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted July 16, 2008 09:42 PM

Rob - I've just finally managed to screen it and must admit that my previous post maybe a 'false alarm' as my print sounds similar to yours, with a reasonable range of colours despite brown dominating what should be black. I was mislead by the leader and opening titles being dreadful in this respect; white on brown and the brown not even being very dark. I take your point concerning abridged versions, but I have the 600' versions of (e.g.) 'The Fog' and 'Capricorn One' from around the same period and they don't have a comparable brownish look.

Mark - I agree that I would have expected this to be Kodak, but I have reason to think that my copy is from the last batch of this title printed. Can anyone recall when the switch from Kodak to Agfa took place?

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Adrian Winchester

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 17, 2008 12:18 AM

I agree Adrian, as my print of "The Fog" (600ft version) still has great color and very good blacks. I would be curious to get ahold of a good full feature of this, just for comparison.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 17, 2008 05:35 AM

Osi, yes, good point, I have The Fog too and you're right, the blacks are very good on that one.

Much as I love this print though, I still feel that some level of detail in the shadow areas is lost - not neccesarily a criticism, just a result of copying from a 35mm print I guess.

I've never seen the feature but would imagine if it was produced from a negative that it fairs better in this respect?

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted July 17, 2008 08:47 AM

There's one element that you need to add to the loss of colour range from 35mm to 8mm and that's the original cinematography.

Although I love this film (and most of Larry Cohen's other works), I wouldn't say that photography is its prime quality.

A dear friend who, for quite a few years, ran the "Anchor Bay" label in the US (specialized in all sorts of genre movies) told me they had a lot of colour balancing work at the lab prior to the release of Q on DVD.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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