8mm Forum: WHAT ARE THESE ANOYING BLUE SPOTS AND LINES?

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Topic: WHAT ARE THESE ANOYING BLUE SPOTS AND LINES?

Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

posted October 17, 2012 12:38 PM

Why do some of these blue things show up after a color film cleaning, when before the film is cleaned you don't see them? Is it that they are hidden some how? And then it is there forever? Can restoration ever fix those blue things?

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted October 18, 2012 06:55 AM

I fear Laksmi that the coloured marks on your film are scratches
on the film that show up probably because of the refractive index
of the mark being altered by the lubricant.Or it could be your
machine is marking after the gate and you won't know until a
later viewing.

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

posted October 18, 2012 12:24 PM

I don't think scratches are
on the film that show up probably because of the (refractive index) ? What is that?
are the marks being altered by the lubricant. I have checked out other prints and they are fine from th my lubricant Film Guard .Or it could be my
machine is marking after the gate and won't know until a
later viewing.
My projector is real gentle on my films and most of my films love the lube. It is a very few that react with green spots or lines. May be that is the answer not just lines but flakes here and there which can not be produced by film gates. It has to be the film stock?

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted October 18, 2012 02:04 PM

Well you've got me there Laksmi, I can honestly say that I've
never had emulsion shed.The expression "refractive index" just
refers to how the information from your film is transfered through
your lens,for instance if you had a light mark on your film,and a
certain film lube made it invisible on projection, then it has
changed the refractive index of your scratch, it's still there, but
isn't showing up on screen.

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

posted October 18, 2012 04:27 PM

HEY Hugh I just looked at many of my films there is no emulsion lines . Which I think was there all the time but never showed in the screening but was visable after the Film Guard was applyed to lube the film. It is the first reel of my Forbidden Planet film feature. It has the line until it gets more then half way through then there is a jump splice and then no line. THe rest of the film reels has no line. Check out the picture

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted October 18, 2012 05:09 PM

Hi Laksmi,if you're using Elmo projectors,a slight adjustment on
the gate guides will move the picture ever so slightly,and your
mark will be hidden.

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

posted October 18, 2012 05:17 PM

Oh yeah Hugh I'm useing Elmo SC-18 I will try it and when it is projecting on the screen I'll move it over so you don't see it. But what about the line it was there before I played the film on my projector? Did the cleaning reveal it.

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted October 18, 2012 06:52 PM

Hi Laksmi,I would check that the rollers on the top sprocket of
your Elmo are not sticking,maybe loosening a screw or a drop of light oil, also check the "head presser", the little plastic moulding
that is situated below the gate and above the soundheads as this has a tendency to wear and show up on subsequent viewings,
this is for the emulsion side scratch which yours appears to be.
Check also the lower sprocket guide for wear.I have had the same
problems as have many other users Laksmi, in my case, I cut
away the plastic and fitted rollers to reduce the risk of scratches
on my Elmo's, which did the trick.Make yourself a loop of film
with no marks on it and run it for an hour just to check.

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

posted October 19, 2012 12:29 AM

Laksmi
Did you purchase this print brand new? I am curious if the line is something that was there before you got it and like Hugh mentioned maybe your earlier viewings it was properly obstructed as it looks to be far off to the side..i have an ST-1200 that was so shifted in the gate area I could see the sprockets.

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"You're too Far Out Miss Lawrence"

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

posted October 19, 2012 12:41 AM

I purchased this print used not new . This is the only movie that has this in all my many movies and it ends on the first reel in a 4 reel set. It ended about 3/4 through the first reel after a splice jump. It is not on any of the other reels2,3,or 4 .Why if it were my projector scratching was it only on this print and no other films . I have a brand new copy of the Ten Commandments 3X 400 Marketing films right out of the plastic with no marks and I have played it many times. I clean my projector all the time it is so sweet on films. The marks must have been on the film before but cleaning it made it visible.The film is in a state of decomposition in which the dyes are breaking down. And the front part before the splice must be doing this break down of a deep into the emulsion scratch, or Stains caused by mould damage deep into the film emulsion.

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 19, 2012 03:09 AM

I haven't used Film Guard but other film cleaners in the past have stripped emulsion in damaged areas and caused emulsion scratches to show up. I doubt that in this case but something to bear in mind.

I'm on my last half litre of Thermofilm now so I will need to find an alternative soon. Worrying times!

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

posted October 20, 2012 12:24 AM

quote:
I cut
away the plastic and fitted rollers to reduce the risk of scratches
on my Elmo's, which did the trick.Make yourself a loop of film
with no marks on it and run it for an hour just to check.

Hey Hugh can you show a picture or drawing of what you mean? I need some kind of picture or detailed discription.

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted October 20, 2012 05:42 AM

I can't upload with this server Laksmi, but if you let me have your
address I can send some info to you that should be of help.
Incidentaly, I have the same print of "FORBIDDEN PLANET", which
I bought from Ian at Perry's over twenty years ago and it's still
pristine.I can't get my head around your print deteriorating as I've
never come across this with modern film stocks.It's more like the
film was marked and your treatment has made it more visible.
The upshot is it's only on the extreme edge which would be lost
in the screen masking.

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Laksmi Breathwaite
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 771
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Nov 2010

posted October 20, 2012 04:30 PM

Okay Hugh my address is 321 W. Jobella Ln,Pahrump ,NV 89048 Anyway my print was originally bought from RED FOX made May 31, 1983. At least it is only on that first reel 3/4 way through the film. I guess the rest still looks pristine. And yes I think like you that the
film was marked and and my treatment has made it more visible. Just before the mark it jumped like a different stock of film was spliced together. Two different film prints or stocks. Oh if you ever want to sell your print I would buy it as a back up and just play my own print more .

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" Faster then a speeding bullet, more powerful then a Locomotive "."Look up in the sky it's a bird it's a plane it's SUPERMAN"

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