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Topic: The Mighty GS1200

Graham Ritchie
Film God

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From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted August 18, 2015 03:07 AM

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Well its been a while since I last ran the GS but the other night I ran some film. The funny thing it took a while to warm up and get up to speed before threading probably getting a bit tired like me.

I have had this projector for just over 30 years and its done really well.

The big improvement was converting it to a two bladed shutter something I made myself. But full credit to that conversion must go to Kevin and Paul, who with encouragement and expertise convinced me to give it a go.

Its nice to run a selection of shorts...bet you lot cant pick the film from this last screen shot.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 18, 2015 03:18 AM

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Superb set up Graham!

You surprise me that your GS took a while to achieve full speed as it is an electronic DC driven machine?
I have not experienced this with any machines other than AC driven machines. Is your shutter belt healthy Graham?

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 18, 2015 04:00 AM

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Graham, was it diificult to replace the shutter ? I thought of doing that on one of my Elmo (I have no GS 1200, I have a st 180, a GS 800 and a ST 1200) but the shutter seems to be a little bit difficult to access. The trouble is that a two bladed shutter is perfect for projections at 24 fps as it increases the light output but males flickering at 18 fps. I don't want to spend one hour to dismantle the projector each time I wish to project a film at 18 fps.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 18, 2015 04:06 AM

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If you need these machines for both speeds Dominique, as we have spoken before, there is no variable shutter possibility on the Elmo machines due to lack of front access.

You would have to keep these machines purely for package films if you want the two bladed option.

You have the Beaulieu Stereo if you want the best of both worlds I suppose, plus there is a variable 2/3 adjustable shutter available for the Bauer Studio line machines if that is a route you may wish to consider.

People like Graham and Paul Adsett have changed their own shutters and I remember reading Paul's comments regarding this work.
I don't believe he reported it as being too big a deal, however some of the original factory fitted screws fitted to the Elmo's can be ridiculously tight to undo and are quite soft metal which can easily be rounded.

Basically, you get only one chance to undo so no slipping of the screwdriver and decent correct fitting tips are essential I would say.

I think Paul had to do a little tweaking after assembly to get the absolute perfect shutter blade angle.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 18, 2015 04:20 AM

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Andrew, I have a variable shutter on my Beaulieu and I have a 1.0 lens for my Elmo projectors so it would juste have been plus. I didn't know there was a variable shutter for the Bauer. I should check on my projector (you never know) and if it is not such a shutter I will try to find one. No emergency or "real" need, just always in search of improving the projectors.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 18, 2015 05:38 AM

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The Bauer machines don't come with this "Beaulieu" style shutter Dominique, they are an exclusive add on product from FFR Filmtechnik.

You can either send them the machine and they will exchange your original to a variable or in some cases I believe they will send you the parts to fit yourself.

130 Euros for a straight 2 Bladed shutter, 160 Euros for a 2/3 variable type.

Price includes fitting but obviously courier costs are extra and it is extremely expensive from the UK as well as being somewhat risky due to the wonderful handling of our precious goods here in the UK!

http://www.ffr-film.de/index.php?page=bauer&language=de

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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posted August 18, 2015 05:53 AM

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Thank you, Andrew. From what I understand they only convert the projector if you send it to them. I will put that on my Christmas list :-)

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 18, 2015 06:16 AM

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Though I do know of a person who had one sent to him as he lived outside of Europe.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
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posted August 18, 2015 06:48 AM

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Maybe they make exceptions if the shipping is too difficult or too pricey.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 18, 2015 10:50 AM

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Indeed. Anyhow hopefully Graham will be able tell you more regarding the GS1200 shutter conversion later this evening Dominique.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted August 18, 2015 06:07 PM

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Dominique

You are right that the two bladed is for 24fps only. I did try projecting at 18fps to see what it was like...not nice...the projector is strictly 24fps.

Top dismantle the GS1200 is quite straight forward. The topic regarding that conversion I did, is back in the 8mm forum somewhere.

The shutter itself is real easy to make, a couple of hours work from old bits of 16mm projector. Timing the shutter to the claw takes the time, but once set, that's it for life..it will never move [Cool]

[Cool]

Was it worth the trouble?... yes well worth it, at a guess around 25% more light than the standard three bladed. Pulling the projector apart also gives you the chance to give things a proper clean and fresh lube as well.

The other night the projector speed was a bit slow to start with due to it being winter "sitting for a while" and everything cold. Like any machine even 35mm a few minutes to warm up a bit before threading. When I worked in the cinema, first thing in the morning when I arrived I would run the projectors close to a good 5 minutes before threading.

Dominique projectors are a bit like us...both need to do a bit of exercise first thing in the morning [Smile]

[Smile]

What really surprised me about pulling the GS1200 apart and putting it back together again was that everything ran great...and much to my relief [Wink]

[Wink]

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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posted August 18, 2015 06:41 PM

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Thank you, Graham ! I will have to decide if I dedicate one of my Elmo to 24fps only projections or if I keep them as they are. By the way, Graham, have you also tried a 18 fps projection on a large screen from a long distance ? I read that the flickering disappears in that specific projection way.

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Dominique

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
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posted August 19, 2015 02:18 AM

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Hi Dominique

I have never tried that, but what I did find at 18fps is the flickering shows up a lot more if the scene "on the screen" is light... say the sky...darker scenes don't show it as much, but any switch from dark to light, you will notice it. I still have our old 18fps home movies and use another projector for watching them.

The GS1200 shutter blade would be a lot easier to convert than say the ST1200, which although it can be done has a different type of shutter altogether.

I wonder if anyone here has converted a ST1200 to a two bladed and if so share there thoughts?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 19, 2015 03:08 AM

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Dominique, if you would like some idea of what to expect the flickering to look like at 18fps using a 2 bladed shutter,
Simply try experimenting with different films and distances using your Beaulieu in this mode on fixed speed setting.

It will be close to what you'd expect to see from the converted GS with a 2BS.

Bear in mind, if anything, the image from the Beaulieu will be slightly more forgiving, just as I know for sure it is at 24fps 2BS mode, because of its uniquely fast pull down claw and longer dwell angle.

I have read on here in the past, people who have converted their St1200 to a fixed 2BS type. The results apparently were very good, but again 18fps mode was useless so in some cases they removed part of the mechanical switch mechanism as it could only ever be then used as a 24fps machine.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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posted August 19, 2015 06:06 AM

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Thanks for the enlightening [Smile]

[Smile]

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 19, 2015 07:20 AM

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Always a pleasure Dominique thanks. [Wink]

[Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Zechariah Sporre
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 557
From: Ladysmith, WI U.S.A.
Registered: Dec 2010

posted August 19, 2015 08:41 AM

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I was also curious about changing the Shutter on my GS-800. I had bought a 2 blade shutter for my projector a while back but I started to take it apart to change and got stumped. It seemed like it should be pretty straight forward and it got to the point where I loosened the set screws on the shutter bushing and it seemed like it should just slid off the shaft (towards the rear of the projector). However, it wouldn't. Do they take a bit of prying/pulling to come of the shaft?

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There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

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From: Manchester Uk
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posted August 19, 2015 10:30 AM

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I have no idea on the GS 800 Zech, I've never owned one. Hopefully someone here will be able to advise you.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steve Klare
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From: Long Island, NY, USA
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posted August 19, 2015 10:38 AM

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So everybody here had to know that you don't know?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
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From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 19, 2015 01:52 PM

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No, quite right Steve, not at all...but hopefully in keeping the post alive and saying what I said, I was just hoping someone will be able to help Zech out, that's all. [Smile]

[Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Steve Klare
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posted August 19, 2015 02:32 PM

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Well, While you're taking on all these responsibilities don't neglect spinning the Earth as well, we're all counting on you!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Paul Browning
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From: West Midlands United Kingdom
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posted August 19, 2015 02:42 PM

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Zech, if you got those little grub screws out they tend to leave a little burr in the shaft, you will need some soft nose pliers to grip this and then gently twist the shutter blade side to side and pulling gently towards the off position, they can be a pain to get off, but not impossible. I use a small needle file to remove the burr on the shaft to stop it dragging on the new blade.

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Zechariah Sporre
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From: Ladysmith, WI U.S.A.
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posted August 20, 2015 06:33 PM

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Thanks Paul. I'll pull it back out and give it another try. I'm interested to see how much brighter it is.

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There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness

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Alan Rik
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posted August 21, 2015 12:31 AM

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Zechariah, I believe Kev over in the UK did the GS800 2 Bladed Shutter a while back. You may want to reach out to him. He's a very good technician and he's helped me numerous times to count. He said the light output was much better. Pair that with a nice 1.1 or 1.0 lens and you have a mini GS1200 Killer! Well maybe not Killer but you get the idea.. [Smile]

[Smile]

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Tom Photiou
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posted August 21, 2015 03:19 AM

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For you chaps that have done these shutter conversion, i reckon Phil of CHC would love a full step by step description of this for the magazine, it could be done over a couple of issues unles Phil was able to dedicate 2-4 pages.
This is the sort of thing he's looking for.
In fact, Andrew, where are?
I think the way i did my Elmo techy bits for the old mag would be a great idea for you to do as small series, i.e., service tips small repair tips, what's available parts wise, & with yours and other peoples experience with Bauers as well as other machines, i believe your experience would be a very welcome addition to our magazine. Unfortunately, i dont really want to do repeat runs of my past items,(& i dont think anyone would want to read them again as they already have it in FFTC), but yours and chaps like you Graham and others on here would be more than welcome, & it will also make Phil a very happy chappy.
What do you say?
[Wink]

[Wink]

[Smile]

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