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Topic: Derann Website
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Jeroen van Ooijen
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 823
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Mar 2008
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posted July 02, 2009 06:04 AM
If they do it example from 2 cartoons or 1 feature,i don't see the problem.
I don't like creditcards,there are many problems with it.
Why they do so difficult if you are a good shop and you have customers that buy a lot from you,then i find there must be a possibility that everyone can buy.
And don't give strange suggestions,the most webshops accept paypal,and here in the Netherlands all webshops,and they advice it for safety.
It seems like they are very old and have there traditions,and they don't want changes like the UPS story.
If i want a movie from them i only can buy second hand or i must to David Thomas,that's strange and he has not all the movies i want.
I would save cartoons in future but first i must to david then he must order by derann then they send the movie to Canada and from Canada to the Netherlands.
It cost me 30Euro extra to pay with bankdraft or pound sterling to them"good for the customers"NOT!!! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Super8 that's the greatest hobby in my life,i was 9 to have my first viewer from GAF.
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 02, 2009 10:52 AM
Dan Lail wrote:
quote:
When I contacted these two companies I offered to pay the Paypal transaction fees when purchasing films.
Dan, in correct term of business, seller is not allowed to charge more than the item's price itself for the sake of fees (eg Credit Card fees). This has also been underlined by Paypal (and Ebay) that we cannot do that. The fees have to be absorbed in total price.
This is the reason why many Germany Ebayers are rarely using paypal because the sellers don't want to be involved in paypal fees (Andreas Eaggling has once explained that here).
In case you and Derann, you don't mind to pay more for the item to compensate such fees, but mind you, that if Derann allows you to do that then other will ask the same and finally Derann ends up in breaching regulations.
Jeroen van Ooijen wrote:
quote:
Why they do so difficult if you are a good shop and you have customers that buy a lot from you,then i find there must be a possibility that everyone can buy.
Why are you so difficult to use Credit Card? You may be afraid someone will steal your CC numbers (details), but actually you can send multiple emails to Derann confirming your numbers (divide your 16 digits credit card via 4 mails for example) or calling them by phone. Derann will store your numbers for future purchases. So you don't need to submit your numbers every time you make a purchase.
Secondly, I am never afraid to use credit card for online shopping because if you look carefully in their terms and conditions (it is always in very, very fine prints) , i.e. if we are the card holders don't agree with the billing statement, we can avoid paying that. The CC company will do an investigation and if they found we are not using it, they will write it off from our statement.
Many people who their card have been cracked can avoid the payment because:
1. the CC company found the address for shipping is in different city/country
2. The unusual (numbers and nominal) of purchase.
Remember that CC company also have insurance to deal with this fraud transaction and so no one will loose in this fraud transaction (neither the buyer or seller). Insurance company will cover it.
Another benefit in using CC (at least here in Canada), if you purchase something with CC and found the items is not satisfying you as described, you can make a claim and CC will give a refund. I believe this also involve insurance company and nor buyer and seller is loosing money.
So do contact your CC company about this and if this happen, you can make a claim if there is lost in mail and get a full refund from CC Company and Derann also will not loose any money.
Lastly, which I am not really sure about this. I am afraid if you are using paypal, it will go to a personal account (eg. Gary email/account) and this will result you are not getting the VAT off from the item price (if you are buying from outside UK). I am thinking this because Derann must be registered as a company account to Visa/Master Card and by having this Derann can claim the VAT issue to the government and get VAT off for overseas purchases. Which the issue may not be applied if you are using paypal.
That is another possibility.
thanks,
winbert
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Winbert
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Bart Smith
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 228
From: Hackney, London
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted July 02, 2009 12:30 PM
quote:
Dan, in correct term of business, seller is not allowed to charge more than the item's price itself for the sake of fees (eg Credit Card fees). This has also been underlined by Paypal (and Ebay) that we cannot do that. The fees have to be absorbed in total price...
...In case you and Derann, you don't mind to pay more for the item to compensate such fees, but mind you, that if Derann allows you to do that then other will ask the same and finally Derann ends up in breaching regulations.
That may be the case elsewhere, but it isn't here in the UK. eBay rules specifically forbid it, but it is not stipulated by PayPal. It is legal to surcharge for card payments (or PayPal), but may or may not be the best business practice.
quote:
Lastly, which I am not really sure about this. I am afraid if you are using paypal, it will go to a personal account (eg. Gary email/account) and this will result you are not getting the VAT off from the item price (if you are buying from outside UK). I am thinking this because Derann must be registered as a company account to Visa/Master Card and by having this Derann can claim the VAT issue to the government and get VAT off for overseas purchases. Which the issue may not be applied if you are using paypal.
This would not be the case either.
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www.bluecinetech.co.uk
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Keith Ashfield
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 997
From: U.K.
Registered: Dec 2006
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posted July 02, 2009 01:19 PM
I don't wish to take sides, or biased opinions on the comments above, especially when the original thread topic was an announcement by Gary from Derann about their updated website - BUT you must bare in mind that Derann have been in the business for over 45 years.
In that time they have more than accomodated the film collectors with excellent products, customer care and service, second to none, so they must be doing something right.It is not about them "having their traditions".
You will go a long way to find a more heplful company. The fact that they choose to use a specific postal carrier and specific payment systems is THEIR choice. You do whatever makes YOUR business a success and when you find a formula that works, you stick to it.
I am sure they would like to accomodate everyone they can, but as old Abe Lincoln said -
"You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time?"
So come on guys, cut the lads at Derann a bit of slack - after all, without their commitment to the hobby we wouldn't be having this discussion on this forum.
We would all "like to have our cake and eat it" but sometimes we have to cook it first! Meet them halfway - they have the product you want, they ship it the most secure way they can, at a price that is fair. They do not quibble if there is a problem - If you want the films, at least attempt to find a method that suits both parties - not only one.
The one thing we must all remember here is that they have the product - there is probably more than one of us who would like it, so they are not worried. As Gary said they sell most of the titles on the list. If you going to go out "fishing" then take more than one kind of bait and hook and you will have a bigger chance of coming home with the fish ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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"We'll find 'em in the end, I promise you. We'll find 'em. Just as sure as a turnin' of the earth".
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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God
Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 02, 2009 03:37 PM
Bart thanks for the explanation and please read the regulations taken from Paypal UK page, which I quote:
quote:
No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not apply a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a 'surcharge'). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the packing fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods). Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website.
But however
quote:
PayPal is not much different, but IS more expensive
You forgot to account that when we are going to cash our balance, AGAIN we will loose some money apart from the paypal fees. We are mostly act as buyers here, so when we sometimes receive money we usually use it for another transaction (as paypal balance). So we hardly feel those fees. But Derann is going to cash-in the money for their future business.
regards,
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Winbert
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Bart Smith
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 228
From: Hackney, London
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted July 03, 2009 12:05 AM
Hi Winbert,
The text you quote above is not part of the EU user agreement which states the following:
quote:
4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions. Nothing in this Agreement is intended to affect the legal right of a merchant in the UK to impose a surcharge for a debit or credit card transaction under the Credit Cards (Price Discrimination) Order 1990.
quote:
From US agreement that Winbert quoted: Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website.
These quotes explicitly affirm the fact that Credit and Debit Card (and therefore also PayPal) payments can be surcharged, as the UK law overrides everything else. It is legal (but only in the UK) and I can think of several major sites which do so, www.interparcel.co.uk being an example. They charge nothing for a debit or credit card payment, but an extra 2% if you pay by PayPal.
quote:
You forgot to account that when we are going to cash our balance, AGAIN we will loose some money apart from the paypal fees. We are mostly act as buyers here, so when we sometimes receive money we usually use it for another transaction (as paypal balance). So we hardly feel those fees. But Derann is going to cash-in the money for their future business.
Winbert, I don't understand this point at all. When I have money in my PayPal business account (having paid the fees as already discussed), there is no extra charge whatsoever to transfer it to my business account either from PayPal or from my receiving bank. Maybe this is not the case in other countries, but it is here in the UK for nearly all business bank accounts! So the 'balance' in my PayPal account is the same amount of money that lands in my account. Clearly as with any form of income it is subject to taxation, but that is a separate issue.
Personally I don't surcharge for PayPal on my site, but that is my choice and decision.
Bart
[ July 03, 2009, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: Bart Smith ]
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www.bluecinetech.co.uk
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