Ilford Elmo FP-C projector

[Gary Bolingbroke]

I just wanted to say thank you to all who have previously posted about the Elmo FP-C. I have one that belonged to my late father, and am trying to use it for the first time to view some old family film. I don't have a user manual for it, but thanks to this forum I now have a feel for how most of it works, although it needs some TLC before it will work properly. On first attempt to use it, after a short while the film jammed in the mechanism when the take-up reel stopped. I now know that the belt is so aged it's loose on the reel pulleys, so have a new one on order. Thanks to this forum, I discovered how to manually rewind the film back onto it's reel using the knurled knob on the front to hand wind it. However, I wondered if anyone could tell me what the purpose is of the lever that protrudes out of the mechanism cover, and switches up/down. I currently have it in the down position, but have no idea whether or not that is correct.

[Janice Glesser]

Hi Gary. I can provide you with a PDF of the manual. Just send my a PM requesting the Elmo FP-C Manual. Also I believe the lever you are referring to is the FRAMING KNOB. You adjust this lever up and down to control the masking of the frame opening in the gate. Because the frame image of Super 8mm is larger than Regular 8mm you might have to move the masking to avoid seeing a frame cut off or part of the next frame depending on which film gauge you are running.

[Gary Bolingbroke]

Hi Janice,

Thank you, that is the lever I was referring to. I have both 8mm and Super 8 film. My first attempt was with 8mm film, but the take-up reel stopped turning and it jammed while I was trying to focus it, so I didn't get far, but that probably explains why adjusting it so the lens was fully retracted displayed a rectangular image, and adjusting with the lens fully extended cut off the right side of the image.

[Shane C. Collins]

Gary when your belt arrives and your ready to install it follow these instructions. I'm including some photos to show you where things are located. The belt rides on three pulleys, and snakes it's way behind a plastic cover that is part of the carrying handle on top. In the photo below you will see the two screws that hold this plastic piece. Once the screws are taken out you will be able to slip the belt out. There's also one more step you must complete, and this confuses people sometimes. The bottom gear pulley (see photo with red arrow) needs to be unscrewed. A large flat headed screwdriver works best here. Unscrew the pulley and pull it out. Once these simple steps have been completed then just install the new belt. Make sure not to get any lubricate on the new belt, and I would also clean the pulleys, and other areas where the belt makes contact. While you have the back off I would also lubricate the plastic gears if they need done. Sometimes you need to clean off the old grease/lubricate before applying fresh lubricate. For new grease I recommend Super Lube Synthetic Grease. This is safe for plastic gears, and works really well. It comes in a gray tube item number 21030 https://www.zoro.com/super-lube-synt...30/i/G5124366/
Also if your motor has oiling tubes drop some oil in those tubes to help lube the bearings. When changing film formats be sure to rotate the front knob while pushing in the sprockets for either Super 8 or Standard 8mm. I'm including a photo here for that as well. If you fail to rotate the knob the plastic gears that are linked with the sprockets can be damaged, resulting in missing teeth. The photo below shows where those instructions are. The knob itself is at the front of the machine.
As you probably know there are 2 belts in this machine. The smaller motor pulley belt is usually in OK condition. The original is made from a different material that seems to hold up fine. I would however slip it off the pulleys and clean those well, and the belt itself.

[Gary Bolingbroke]

Hi Shane,

Thanks for that, good tips, as I said, it needs some TLC, so I'll follow your suggestions for cleaning it, and re-greasing/oiling it.
The old belt is currently sitting over the little wheel, not under as in your photo, so I'll make sure it's routed correctly when I change it. It is a pair belts i've got on order, so I'll at least have one for the motor if needed.
Just a few questions on cleaning & lubricating it, if I may:
I have a tube of silicon grease for general use, and ok on plastics. Would that be ok for these gears? If not I'll see what equivalent we have here in the UK to your Super Lube.
I see the two motor lube tubes, would you use a 3-in-1/Sewing machine oil to lubricate the motor?
What would your preference be for cleaning the pulleys, Isopropyl alchohol, brake cleaner, white spirit? I have all sorts in my garage :-)
I'll make sure I use the knob when pushing the sprockets. I had plenty of practise with that unwinding the film that got stuck when the take-up reel stalled on the loose belt.

[Shane C. Collins]

Hi Gary, I would say that silicon grease is probably OK just make sure it's safe for plastic. 3-in-1 oil is fine for the motor, and Isopropyl alcohol is OK for cleaning the pulleys, etc. Also these FP Series projectors are known to have lenses that get cloudy with age. I think it's a fungus issue. Once this happens the lens is no good. However if you can locate a Bolex 1.3 prime lens from an original Bolex 18-5 you can slip that in the barrel of the Elmo. The difference is night and day in clarity and sharpness.

[Gary Bolingbroke]

Hi Shane, I'll keep an eye out for a Bolex lens. I read the archived posts regarding attempts to clean a cloudy lens. This one doesn't appear to be particularly cloudy, but does have some specs of dust inside between the lenses, and I gather you can't get in to clean it without going to a lot of trouble to dismantle it. I presume the spanner holes in the lens were for assembly, and Elmo didn't intend it to be dismantled for maintenance.

[Janice Glesser]

For reference Gary... here is a video I made a while back of my Elmo FP-A. It operates the same as the FP-C. The FP-A just had an extra power socket on the back for connecting to an external tape recorder.

[Gary Bolingbroke]

Thanks for the video Janice.
The projector is running now that I have the new belt fitted for the reels. I just need to finish cleaning it up. I can now see the vertical effect the framing know has, but I have a little horizontal displacement to resolve. I've cleaned the pressure plate, but need to have a look at the aperture plate to see if there's an issue there. When I project a film there's a thin vertical black margin showing to the right, so I presume there's a thin strip of image out of frame on the left. I also need to repair some of the film, where old splicing tape has come unstuck. Most of these are 8mm, shot on my fathers Kodak 'Brownie', with film from some of the little Kodak reels spliced together onto 5" reels.

[Shane C. Collins]

Gary is the pressure plate seated firmly in the film path? I could see where a slight vertical margin could be caused by a pressure plate that is misaligned. I had this problem when I first got my Elmo FP8-C. Once aligned all was well.

[Gary Bolingbroke]

Hi Shane,

I've just checked that. and also made sure the aperture plate wasn't out of line by putting pressure on it at the top and bottom, and letting its leaf springs push it back into place. I did this a couple of times to check its position was repeatable. I shot a short video on my phone so you can see what i'm actually seeing. The image doesn't come close to the video Janice posted. She has a good, clean, square image with even brightness. Mine is offset with a bright spot in the middle. I presume the lamp has seen better days, but I can't see what is causing that horizontal misalignment. I'll try attaching screenshots of the video and some photos to give an idea of what i'm seeing. I guess a picture's worth a thousand words.

[Shane C. Collins]

Yeah I'm not completely sure on that one really! Could the lens be causing some issues? What condition is the lens in? As I've mentioned earlier, the Elmo lens in these FP Series machines do not age well. When I installed a Bolex "hifi" 1.3 prime lens the difference was night and day. I'm including a photo of my conversion to the Bolex lens. Actually I wouldn't call it a conversion since no other parts are needed, but rather a simple upgrade, where the lens fits right into the lens holder of the Elmo. This upgrade turns the Elmo into quite the projector. Here's a nice Bolex prime for sale in your neck of the woods. Remember if you upgrade to a Bolex lens it must be from the early 18-5 series Standard 8mm machines. The later Super's will not work as the barrel diameter is too wide. https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAILLARD-BO...oAAOSwe~tdUFXz

[Janice Glesser]

Gary...Have you tried different reels of film in both 8mm and Super 8mm to see if you get the lines. It's possible it's the film and not the projector. In regards to the hot spot...this very well could be the bulb...I don't think the lens (unless it's the wrong lens) would cause this. Check to make sure it's the correct bulb (DCA 150W 21.5V) and the original Elmo lens. Perhaps a photo of the lens area and the bulb area would be helpful... I might see something. Shane is right about the Bolex lens being a better lens...but you should be getting decent results with the Elmo lens...so I would recommend making any changes until you identify the what's causing your current issues first.


Don't expect the edges to be super clean and sharp. I project onto a small matted screen which gives cleaner edges, but the lighting should be fairly consistent acoss the images.




I'm working on a lamp conversion that will let you use the much cheaper EJM Halogen bulb.

[Janice Glesser]

FYI Gary... I posted my solution to doing a lamp conversion on the Elmo FP-A and FP-C projectors. If you get your projector issues resolved you might think of converting to using a less expensive bulb.

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/vbb/fo...amp-conversion

[Gary Bolingbroke]

Thanks for the suggestion Janice.
I finally found time to investigate this further, and fortunately had one Super 8 film to try. That actually projects a reasonable image, so the problem seems to be with running Standard 8. I've tried a couple of films. Photos of projections from both, as well as the Super 8 below. You can see the difference in these photos. Apologies for the poor quality, I had one hand using my phone to take the picture, and the other putting tension on the 3" film reels to stop them spinning too fast and the film unravelling.
I'm wondering if the full Standard 8 image is being projected, but the problem is light leaking around the image and projecting the frame around the aperture.
It also looks like film has been burnt by the lamp at some time, and the aperture area needs a good cleaning out, but I'm reluctant to start disassembling it, and risking making it worse, when i'm not familiar with the assembly.


Super 8


Standard 8



Projector showing lamp


Lamp removed to view lamp side of aperture