ST 1200 ebay purchase...should I keep it or send it back?

[Martin Davey]

Dear forum,

I recently purchased off Ebay a st1200 HD mo. Although it was listed as 'fully working' it has issues with the belts as expected. This example has the rubber tyre around the shutter wheel and I can see that is sticky. Also the clutch mechanism (with the two large, rubber wheels) did not to want to engauge with the shutter wheel although with some fiddling it now does. I do already possess a st1200 HD mo which I have since 1993 (ex porn club) and still gives delightful service so I know my way around this model. I took the belts of my machine and there was some improvement but it sounded rough, due to the sticky tyre on the shutter wheel I presume. Hopefully that noise would disappear when cleaned? I have not fed any film through it but did try the optical sound with a card and I got suitable sounds back through the speaker.

I have contacted the seller and he is happy to have it returned.

But this is the important thing....the machine is in mint (unused condition). Totally clean! It even has the label attached to the handle and all the accessories, paperwork ,case, mic, not that I need most of those. The label says that the lens is a 1.3, but I could see in the picture it was an 1.1, and has the polystyrene insert for protection. Sadly there is some fungus in the lens. This lot cost me £200.

So the question I put to the forum is do I keep it, clean off the old rubber tyre back to metal, and hope that all is well. And attempt to get at the fungus? Or would it be wise to send the whole lot back? I have asked if the seller wanted to negotiate a new cheaper price but said that it can't be done.

[Janice Glesser]

I removed the rubber tire from my ST1200HD with no problem and it runs fine. Sounds like with a little TLC this projector could be very good especially with the 1.1 lens. After fixing it up you could most likely sell it for more than you paid for it...if you want.

[Maurice Leakey]

Martin.
You said it sounded rough. From your description it appears that it has had little use, so perhaps its lubrication has all dried up. As Janet says, some TLC may work wonders. For £200 it sounds a bargain if you can have some time to work on it.
Keep it.

Maurice

[Martin Davey]

Thanks Janice.
Maurice- yes I am beginning now to think about keeping it. There are absolutely no marks/ deposits on the sound heads or gate. And no finger prints on the panels/ buttons, just totally untouched inside and out, and shiny! I would leave the lens until another time as I already have a 1.1. I wonder if the disassembly process is the same as a 1.0 lens? I remember a thread about that a few years ago.

[Steve Klare]

I have a machine that showed up never used about two years ago: There's a lot to be said for it: the guides are brand new and if I keep them clean and lubed they could be good for 40 years. I've noticed that it operates quieter than my Veteran machine, and I think that's because the gears aren't worn. Of course the heads are unworn.

Of course it may be extremely low mileage, but it's not new. I was worried that the electrolytics were no more capacitors than they were cans of beer!

-but they did bounce back to life.

-Let's not even talk about the belts!

(It's a shame about your lens fungus.)

[Martin Davey]

Thanks all for your replies, most appreciated. i will be keeping it!

[Joe Taffis]

The Elmo f1.1 lens is a little more complicated than an f1.0 here is the f1.1 disassembled... As far as the projector goes, I would probably keep it...

[Martin Davey]

Thank you Joe. I presume them I would start as in this thread http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bi...c;f=1;t=011928 but just expect to find more elements?

Moving back to the pojector....After some lubrication of the gears and cleaning off the sticky shutter rim type it now sounds a lot quieter. No film has been tried however as I have a problem when the machine is switched to backwards mode. Sometimes the projector will seize up immediately and make a terrible noise (I shut off immediately of course) or the motor runs freely but does not engage with the rest of the machine. The noise sounded like it came from the still frame douser area. I then looked closely at my operational HD an noticed the the dowser is always down at rest and only lifts during projection. Whereas on this new machine it appears to be in a locked up position. I can't see any mechanical movement looking deeper in to the machine, unlike my working example. Any thoughts please?

[Martin Davey]

Looking further I think the whole clutch mechanism is at fault. I notice on my working example the two rollers hover a few mm above the shutter wheel rim while idling, and then one of them will engage with the rim wheel when projecting forward/ backwards. But this new one does not do that and the whole unit feels slightly loose. The photo shows the extent at which it can be pulled out. Also the 18/24 frame knob is not parallel. I'm wondering if the projector was damaged when new?

[Steve Klare]

There is a fair amount of slop in this assembly. I bet if you grab the handle and press on it, the roller will grab.

Sometimes you need to loosen the mounting screws and maneuver it around until the roller is firm on the shutter wheel, then tighten them up.

Maybe a factor against you here is you lost the thickness of the rubber around the shutter wheel. (Your existing adjustment may need it.) I replaced mine, but many people do just fine without it.


http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bi...c;f=1;t=010066

[Martin Davey]

Thanks Steve for that link.That thread came back to me as I started re-reading it. Lots to take in there. I have to put the 1200 aside for a few days anyway as I have higher priories for now! It funny but I did see the 5 pack belts on Ebay but there are no UK sellers that do that. They just sell a pack of 2???

[Steve Klare]

Yes, I was originally going to buy his two belt set: I have basically no need for a footage counter.

(The replacement shutter wheel surface kind of drew me in.)

[Martin Davey]

Dear forum,

I have loosened the transformer and clutch assembly to have a closer look inside. Part A on my working machine moves up and down depending on what the control dial is turned to. On this machine it was stuck fast. I managed to make it shift downward with pressure from a screwdriver, so now it does go up and down with some reluctance, again using a screwdriver. Turning the control knob makes no difference and I can't as yet see how part 'A' is moved by it. I'm wondering just how much I have to dissemble the whole thing? One good thing is that I recieved a partial refund on the item, so now it is like buying a 1.1 lens with a free projector. Always appreciate observations!

[Martin Davey]

I have had a further look at part 'A'. I could not see how it was manoeuvred. I then checked against my working machine and now see that in this 'ex-factory' example there appears to be a segment of linkage missing. I had circled a foot that pushes up part A on my working example which is absent on the new machine!

[Martin Davey]

I'm pleased to say I have had some success and have fed film through. Picture and sound are great! I found the linkage mechanism hidden behind a cog so I pulled it down and slid it in to place which that made things fall in to place. The clutch works most of the time but I shall have to fiddle around with the screws and nuts to make it reliable. I almost feel that a tyre on the shutter wheel would solve that issue.
However I still have problems which I hope someone can offer some advice please. The first one is that the green threading button does not reset to neutral after threading, the black switch in the take up reel area, making no difference. I find that it does reset after pressing a contact switch (in A area). I do not have the machine running/ plugged in for that operation. I have no real understanding of electricals. I can solder, but this is for 12v model railways, and where I am following instructions.
The second problem is that I have no track indicator light/ optical sound lamp. Originally when I first got the machine last week these were working. I think the VU meter may have had a lamp too.
The last problem is the cog for the take up reel and belt (B area). Although it appears visually to be undone with a screwdriver I'm finding it tough to undo. I do not want to apply excess pressure in case some other operation has to be done to allow it to unscrew.
Thanks.