Eumig 824 -- films no longer thread

[Paul Adsett]

Looks to me from the photos that the rear gate plate is not completely inserted into the projector casting. I see a gap on your photo which is not present on my 824 where the rear gate labelled S is totally flush with the aluminum casting. This would definately be the root cause of your threading problem.

[Janice Glesser]

I don't have a threading issue with my 824...Maybe these photos will help for comparison.



Also... Have you been able to take a look at the claw to see if it is retracting enough by turning the inching knob?

[Max Romanelli]

well, hi everyone.. i have same problem with my eumig 807d. film doesn't thread, and, based on the rob ´s picture, i think something is missing in my claw, because the film just stay there.. ones i load it manually, then i run the light, and i can't see nothing but speedy frames.. maybe you can help me with that.. the sprocket are ok, by the way. thanks in advance.

[Max Romanelli]

im sorry, forget something to mention: i think the motor speed its ok, because, the sound is good normal, so, no issues whit that.

[Rob Booker]

Thank you Paul for looking at the pictures. The problem first started without me touching the gates, but I very much appreciate your comment because who knows it might've come out so it's given me hope and I will try again to see if that's the problem :-) I reinserted loads of times so far and not changed, but you've given me encouragement check again :-)
Thank you Janice, that's great of you, I will save that to my PC and compare!
Good luck Max!

[Leonard Goss]

well, hi everyone.. i have same problem with my eumig 807d. film doesn't thread, and, based on the rob ´s picture, i think something is missing in my claw, because the film just stay there.. ones i load it manually, then i run the light, and i can't see nothing but speedy frames.. maybe you can help me with that.. the sprocket are ok, by the way. thanks in advance.

The pins are missing from your claw, possibly broken off while changing the gate parts at some point.

[Leonard Goss]

Looks to me from the photos that the rear gate plate is not completely inserted into the projector casting. I see a gap on your photo which is not present on my 824 where the rear gate labelled S is totally flush with the aluminum casting. This would definately be the root cause of your threading problem.

I agree, it looks like that to me too on close inspection.

[Rob Booker]

Thanks Leonard, I'm going to have another try with renewed optimism, but I've taken it out many times in my life even before this problem, but maybe over the years I lost the knack of putting it back. Thanks again all :-) have a great Sunday


-edit-
I checked the gate, it's the same as Janice's except an S Super 8mm. It's just the angle on one of the photos that makes it seem like it has a gap. There are alignment pins anyway, it's in position and even if I squeeze it towards the casing and thread the same problem happens. I took the gate out again anyway and put it back with the pins aligned as usual. No joy. I then put my finger in the area where the loop forms and turned the mechanism manually with the dial. Initially the film threaded into the gate when manually turned this way but then started to bunch up or get caught just after the first sprocket at the feed side (before the gate). I know this suggests a sprocket issue but I can't see the problem with the sprocket and it rewinds out ok with no obvious slipping. I can't just can't work this one out at all. My best guess is the feed sprocket or thing that makes the feed loop is out of alignment in some way. I don't how that suddenly happened if it is the case. Oh well...

Another edit -- I just manually threaded it into the gate and then powered it. It seems to project ok but it exits at the front of course. Rewinding was very fast through the gate because on rewind the claw is not engaging it seems. I wonder if that's a clue to the fault. If the gate or the claw has gone out of alignment, there does not seem to be any way to click it back properly (and it seems to me the gate is in the correct position anyway). But it does still seem to jam up before the gate and usually does not thread into the gate unless I do it manually.

I just wonder, is that an adjustment screw in the recessed hole near the first sprocket? What does it adjust? The distance between the threader or loop housing and the body of the projector? It turns and seems to move the threader away?
Also I am unsure as to why there are two sprockets wheels (both fit super 8) so that when the first sprocket knob is in position it seems there are two wheels with teeth both together transporting the film. It's always been like that and worked, of course, but I just wonder why there are two sets side by side like that, perhaps a micron apart when the knob is in position.

[Erik Snel]

Hi rob, I think i have something here. i was looking at the first picture you posted and compared it to mine. there is a part missing in your projector. it as a little plastic piece that guides the film upwards into the upper loop former and i dont see it on your picture. it is clamped on a stud and it cac come off. i have found it once somewhere in the amplifier. that projector also must have had threading problems because is almost had a complete film on its insides.

[Rob Booker]

Thanks Erik ! :-) I will go looking but probably it got swept up weeks ago. But thank you very, very much for solving this mystery because it was driving me nuts!

[Rob Booker]

Inspired by Erik's post saying that the part can fall into the amp, I opened the projector back again today and looked with a torch/flashlight. Nothing seen. Closed it up, gave it a moderate shake and heard a rattle (I don't recommend shaking old equipment but things were a tad desperate!). Opened the front this time. I opened it yesterday too and nothing was found, and today I decided the rattle was just the small black plastic cover under the left of the front panel or the screw washer that holds the panel fascia on where the control dials or knobs are. Kept my fingers on both and gently shook the projector again to check - and yeah, no rattle. Phone rang. After the call, I went back to the projector and suddenly saw it there on the carpet - the elusive found essential part needed for threading (thanks again, Erik!) as shown in the pic. I don't know where it was before because I opened the projector several times and nothing fell out. But maybe the shaking I did today and opening it up a few days ago helped free it up. I have no idea where it was hiding - none at all. But using Bluetack it's now back in place :-) Before this, I went through many cardboard boxes and bags to see if it had fallen in, pulled out furniture to see if it was under there, disturbing numerous spiders and finding an old router password
(I attach a photo of the found part in case this happens to anyone else.)

[Erik Snel]

I am very curious to see if the projector works again!

[Rob Booker]

Erik, yes absolutely fine with the threading now except I have to clean the rubber wheels because the projector is giving me 18fps and not really 24fps most of the time, but I did that cleaning before and usually it works and helps the speed. I think 99% alcohol is ok but someone on YouTube said to use Platclene or something similar because it is safer for using on rubber. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that guide part on the carpet suddenly because I didn't notice it there when I went to answer the phone. After reinstalling the part, I threaded a cartoon through and the projector is behaving really well, threading smoothly and quietly with no problem at all even without the leader that it chewed off after that part went AWOL. Yes my 824 looks tatty and paint-chipped, but it was always a great little machine. This little episode also led me back to my enchantment with cine film and reminds me of my childhood and teens. I acquired 2 more projectors as a result of this episode - a Bauer T171 that really needs a new belt but is getting by at the moment with the belt spray, and now a rather nice Eumig RS3000. I also learnt old colour films get a magenta tinge sometimes!
Thanks again, Erik, and of course everyone else who gave advice here that no doubt will apply to someone else's 824 threading problem and so in turn help them.

Just an edit to say: I have not put the lamp back in (because it's in the other projector now) to check for jitter or proper motion, but the sound is ok and so I assume the other parts are all still fine. The sound, threading and sprocket contact seems 100%.

[Rob Booker]

I got the speed problem fixed (as mentioned by careful cleaning of the rubber discs).

But the problem now is no proper motion. It seems the film is just sliding past the gate and so it is just a blur of the film and not frame by frame projected. The claw seems to be moving. I don't what this is unless it's because I haven't put the bulb back in fully? I doubt I'll be that lucky. (It projects like this but faster: https://youtu.be/En__V0oEJsU)

It might be most of the time but occasionally it is perhaps intermittent because when I put a test film through it, I saw it projected as a blur but then worked ok suddenly and so I thought it had somehow righted itself. But when I then put my reel of cartoons through, it was back to the blur effect.
I don't know if it needs a bottom or lower loop before the sound head. If so, I can't see a lower loop forming, the film is flush against the white guide there. If I press the lower lever, it stops the soundtrack output and the film transport is momentarily affected but does not return to the correct flick effect. Frame also seems to have no effect. So I don't know if the shutters (3) are out of synchronisation or the claw (or shuttle/grip) is out of alignment, or what it is. But it's threading very, very well

[Paul Adsett]

Sounds like the film perforations are not centered on the claw. You need to adjust the position of the fixed edge guide which is part of the fixed (unsprung) gate assembly closest to the lamp. The edge guide is held by 2 screws. Adjustment is a trial and error procedure , making very small changes in the edge guide position, and using the inching knob on the rear of the projector to observe the motion of the film. It's time consuming but not difficult.