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Selecting a projector for both formats

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Todd Kitchen View Post
    After attempting repair on five different film projectors (success with B&H 185, Eumig and Chinon; complete failure with the Kodak Pageant and the Kodak Moviedeck), I can say from my limited experience that Eumig design is straightforward and it appears that they kept things the same for many years. The 709 looks like a really rugged piece of kit. I love the way it looks.
    Todd, the Eumig Mark S 709 is in fact a very rugged projector! Of all the projectors I've owned over the years, the 709 is my favorite. I probably sound like a broken record here on the forum, but the 709 was probably the best dual gauge projector Eumig made. The 3 top features for me include: The twist-to-focus lens system, semi auto-loading of film, and the ability to run silent films with the amp turned off, and the heads retracted from the film path. No other projector, that I can think of from those days, can claim to do those 3 simple things and do them well! I'm not saying there aren't other projectors worth checking out, but the 709 is tough to beat when you look at the competition. If the 800 Series, for example, would have incorporated these 3 simple, yet reliable features I would recommend them, but I simply can't. What I've learned over the past year is projectors using the semi auto-loading systems can't be beat! I've had several full auto-loaders and they have all eaten leader films from time to time. I will not run any such projector with my home movies as a result. OK I am rambling again as usual, LOL!

    It goes back to what you mentioned above. All these other decks are not simple to repair, and in some cases can't be repaired. Cheap plastics, worn gears, etc. Most are junk as a result! The Kodak Moviedeck is probably at the top of the list for being the worst ever made, all plastic 70's crap. You are right when you mentioned Eumig's designs as being straightforward. But, they eventually, like many of the other manufacturers of the day, went cheap. This didn't happen until the 900 Series. The early Eumig's built in the mid to late 60's really were the best they put out in my opinion. The top contenders would be the following: The Eumig Mark S, the first Standard 8 sound machine introduced in 1964, followed by the Super 8 version of the Mark S, the Mark S 701 Super 8 only, and the Mark S 709. You might enjoy reading what Phil Johnson said about the 709. I'm also including a photo of the original Mark S Standard 8 projector, a beautifully designed machine!

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    Last edited by Shane C. Collins; November 07, 2023, 07:19 PM.

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    • #32
      Can you remove the film before it gets to the end if you need to with the mark s 709 as this can’t be done with the 800 series machines ?.

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      • #33
        I saw a 712D that sold at an auction site for $44.00 recently.

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        • #34
          Shane C. Collins Great News!! I just purchased a 709 on ebay for £33.00. It says it lights up but doesn't move but I bet that's broken motor mounts, which I know how to repair. I recently restored a Mark S 802, so I'm pretty confident I can fix up this 709 pretty easily. I'm hoping to fix the 709 and keep it for myself. Then I'll sell the 802 for a good price because (unlike most sellers of film gear), I will be able to provide video of it playing a sound film at the right speed, etc.

          There were a couple of auctions for these--I picked this one because it includes the front cover with all the necessary components nestled inside to convert from standard to super 8 and back.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Jason Moffatt View Post
            Can you remove the film before it gets to the end if you need to with the mark s 709 as this can’t be done with the 800 series machines ?.
            Yes, and also with the Mark S (standard 8 and Super 8) as well as the Mark S 709 and the Mark S 701.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Todd Kitchen View Post
              Shane C. Collins Great News!! I just purchased a 709 on ebay for £33.00. It says it lights up but doesn't move but I bet that's broken motor mounts, which I know how to repair. I recently restored a Mark S 802, so I'm pretty confident I can fix up this 709 pretty easily. I'm hoping to fix the 709 and keep it for myself. Then I'll sell the 802 for a good price because (unlike most sellers of film gear), I will be able to provide video of it playing a sound film at the right speed, etc.

              There were a couple of auctions for these--I picked this one because it includes the front cover with all the necessary components nestled inside to convert from standard to super 8 and back.
              Todd that's excellent news! Glad to hear you found a 709. I'm sure once you address the motor mounts, and recondition the rubber drive discs you'll enjoy using the 709! Keep us updated on your progress once you get the machine up to specs! Welcome to the early Eumig club!...
              ​​

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              • #37
                well, Shane, I may be in for more than that because very few sellers have the means to fully test what they sell when it comes to old analog film equipment. Fingers crossed that the caps and tubes are still good. Also I'll have to buy a power cord. Van Eck has them. Do you think the 18mm prime lens they offer at Van Eck that fits this model is an upgrade over the standard zoom lens?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Todd Kitchen View Post
                  well, Shane, I may be in for more than that because very few sellers have the means to fully test what they sell when it comes to old analog film equipment. Fingers crossed that the caps and tubes are still good. Also I'll have to buy a power cord. Van Eck has them. Do you think the 18mm prime lens they offer at Van Eck that fits this model is an upgrade over the standard zoom lens?
                  The 18mm prime is a 1.6 lens which means it won't be as bright on screen. I would go for the 1.1 25mm prime lens. I have this one and like it a lot. Very bright, and sharp. My friend Joseph Banfield also has this lens and likes it!

                  https://van-eck.net/en/product/objec...-used-ls-0258/

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                  • #39
                    The photo with the S709 advertisement has an interesting price)). Where was the projector sold at that price? The written speed is 15-25 frames! All projector databases indicate fixed 18 and 24 frames!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Vitali Vadim View Post
                      The photo with the S709 advertisement has an interesting price)). Where was the projector sold at that price? The written speed is 15-25 frames! All projector databases indicate fixed 18 and 24 frames!
                      The fixed 18 fps is set at the bottom of the switch, and 24 fps at the top. I believe you can slide the switch slightly up or down to change to a different speed, but you also have to change the 50/60 cycle black flag in the back near the motor. This changes the position of the ball against those rubber discs. I think I am explaining this correctly.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Kim Trampus View Post
                        I saw a 712D that sold at an auction site for $44.00 recently.
                        This model is not the most desirable for several reasons. While it looks a lot like the 701 & 709 it uses one of those 50 watt "spaceman" bulbs, instead of the FCR 100 watt halogen used on the 701 & 709. I also suspect this was the first transistorized model, being released in 1969. The one positive is the fact it uses the same film path design as the 701/709, semi auto-loading. Plus the focusing is also the same with twist-to-focus. But those are the only two positives I can think of. Here are a few photos showing the 712, 701, and 709 for comparison.

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                        • #42
                          They offer me Bolex 18-5 for regular 8mm in very good condition. The original belt is damaged. He installed a round belt. When viewed in reverse, the belt comes off. Is it worth buying it at a low price? Is it possible to find an original belt on ebay?
                          It seems there is an 8 volt 50 watt lamp there. This could be a problem!​

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Vitali Vadim View Post
                            They offer me Bolex 18-5 for regular 8mm in very good condition. The original belt is damaged. He installed a round belt. When viewed in reverse, the belt comes off. Is it worth buying it at a low price? Is it possible to find an original belt on ebay?
                            It seems there is an 8 volt 50 watt lamp there. This could be a problem!​
                            If the Bolex 18-5 is the first model with the red selector dial I would pass. This model only uses one belt which cannot be found online. Bolex quickly replaced this model with the 3 belt setup around 1962. This 18-5 has the white or other light colored selector dial. The 3 belt set can be found online, and at a decent price. I just recently bought a Bolex 18-5 Automatic from the mid 60's. This machine has automatic threading through the gate and to the second sprocket, then manually after that. The spaceman bulb generally lasts quite a long time. I have yet to find one that has burned out. If you can find a model with a prime lens they will yield a bright image on screen even with the 50 watt bulb. I have 2 spare spaceman bulbs that should last the life of my machine into the future. I will only be using the 18-5 for occasional projection, and not as my main machine. They are quite fun to use, and very reliable. The rear sprung pressure plate will provide even focus thru an entire reel. Paul Adsett also likes these early Bolexes, and has one in his collection. Below is a link to show you the 18-5 I have in my collection.

                            ​​​​​​http://www.bolexcollector.com/projectors/185auto.html
                            Last edited by Shane C. Collins; November 22, 2023, 06:00 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Yes, the selector is red! I want to be interested in Sankyo 1000H or 2000H. Does he have sprockets?
                              How good is this projector compared to earlier models like the Eumig S709 or others?​

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Vitali Vadim View Post
                                Yes, the selector is red! I want to be interested in Sankyo 1000H or 2000H. Does he have sprockets?
                                How good is this projector compared to earlier models like the Eumig S709 or others?​
                                The Sanyko 1000H uses the spaceman bulb, and the 2000H uses a regular 100 watt halogen. Both are sprocket-less in design, and use a rubber roller to feed the film into the gate. I had two 2000H over the years. They projected a nice steady image, but the lens used for these models is a 1.4 and not very sharp or bright. They do not compare in quality to the 709 or other early Eumig projectors. The Eumigs are all metal construction, while the Sankyo is all plastic. However, I will say the Sankyo's are built well with film safety in mind. They are good for film transfers, etc. But for a full presentation they are not so well adapted for this kind of use. The focusing is all very sloppy compared to the twist-to-focus of the early Eumig's, there's no comparison.

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