8mm Forum: What is a "bandsaw" print?

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Topic: What is a "bandsaw" print?

Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 21, 2009 04:57 PM

Hello

Could someone explain what a "bandsaw" print is and where they come from.

Thanks, Bill

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John Hermes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: La Mesa, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 2008

posted March 21, 2009 05:22 PM

Some companies would run their prints through a bandsaw so they could not be "misused" by collectors or exhibitors after their initial use. Some of these prints would still get into the hands of collectors, who would splice them together. The prints obviously have many splices, but are viewable after the repair.

[ March 21, 2009, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: John Hermes ]

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John Hermes

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted March 21, 2009 06:28 PM

Very viewable, as a matter of fact. [Big Grin]

Watch the sale section of the forum. I'll be offering some extracts of fairly recent films soon.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 21, 2009 07:32 PM

I'm certain I have picked one up. It's an 800' part of "Hulk" from 2003. I watched it and was suprised that it played as well as it did. My concern is all the splices appear to be Scotch 'invisible' tape. That's not good is it?

Should I just leave it alone or fix it with real splicing tape?

I really love the film so to actually have a piece of it is kinda thrilling!

Bill

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 21, 2009 09:38 PM

I've seen "band saw" portions of "The Iron Giant" and "Return of the Jedi" as well on 16MM.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Paul Spinks
Master Film Handler

Posts: 453
From: Barking, Essex, UK
Registered: Mar 2006

posted March 22, 2009 09:58 AM

I have always avoided these prints as the amount of splices per reel must be horrendous. Also as you get nearer to the centre of the reel the splices get closer and closer. This must put a strain on your projector and obviously the print as well.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 22, 2009 12:25 PM

Aside from the hours to splice the reel back together, having watched prints being cut, how do you make sure you get all the parts back in the right order?

John

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted March 22, 2009 12:48 PM

Bill - I wondered what makes you think the tape is not proper splicing tape? It would be astonishing to spend so much time splicing and not use the right tape.

John - From what I've heard, bandsaw reels tend to be film on a core with tape holding it together, but with one cut going from the edge to the centre, so it's no problem getting the sequence right. Can anyone confirm this? I once bought a non-bandsawed trailer on a core that had a cut going a few millimetres into it, so it appeared to be from a bandsawed print.

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Adrian Winchester

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Lars Pettersson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 282
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2007

posted March 22, 2009 01:17 PM

To some extent this whole situation is absurd; beautiful 16mm prints are probably bandsawed when serious collectors would be willing to pay hundreds of pounds for them. In a way it´s strange the film studios are´nt "friendlier" towards the film collectors, since these are people willing to pay a premium for the right product, and the "harm" they do is negligible compared to the people who upload films on the Internet. I guess it comes down to the studios not wanting prints circulating out of their control. [Roll Eyes]

Cheers
Lars

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted March 22, 2009 02:50 PM

Adrian, I'll second what Bill says. There are some films spliced with Scotch Magic Tape.
Some of these prints/extracts were being sold by a person in Arkansas. He was using the splicing exercise to keep his hands busy. When asked why he didn't use regular splicing tape, he simply answered that he had a large stock of magic tape and that, after all, tape was tape...
That person passed in March 2007. His lady wife offered me to take over the remaining stock (about 300 kilos of unspliced film), but I really didn't see myself paying for the shipping across the Atlantic and spending countless hours resplicing the prints.
Magic tape works, it even took the Film Renew challenge and didn't go loose. It just gives you a slightly darker image where the splice is. Honestly it's not as disturbing as a big green emulsion line.
All the respliced bandsaw bits that I have run smoothly in the Elmo.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted March 23, 2009 05:51 AM

Hey, I'm in the market for 'bandsaw' prints if the quality is otherwise good! Tempt me!

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Bill Phelps
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1482
From: USA
Registered: Jan 2009

posted March 23, 2009 03:28 PM

Thanks for the interesting info everyone.

To resplice everything would be very time consuming...I don't know if I love the film THAT much. I was just concerned if the Scotch tape would hurt the film in the long haul. I suppose it is just tape.

It does run good. There were some sections that you could tell a frame was missing here and there. But in the center of the film there were stetches that ran so good I forgot there were even splices. I thought the tape would be noticable but it really is not.

It is a shame that these films are cut up and destroyed. I can understand the studios reasons for doing it, as some may use them for wrongful profit. You know how it goes...one person screws up...everyone pays the consequence.

Bill

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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008

posted March 24, 2009 01:15 AM

I have one that I guess I'll call a "corkscrew" print since it was never fully cut it just has a dime sized notch on every revolution. It was notched on the soundtrack side so it plays smoothly but you still get the annoying dropout each turn.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 26, 2009 10:15 PM

If the companies don't want to loose their control over the prints and then bandsawed it, why they don't just destroy it to a point that cannot be re-spliced?

Probably using to a similar macnine like paper shredder?

cheers,

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Winbert

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John Hermes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: La Mesa, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 2008

posted March 26, 2009 10:37 PM

They want to torture us by making us make a thousand splices. [Wink]

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John Hermes

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted March 26, 2009 11:08 PM

Bandsaw prints were unknown to me until I tried the Arkansas seller to which Jean-Marc refers. That much scotch tape might be fine now, but if the adhesive ever shifts or oozes, you'd never want to run it again. I twisted the dear widow's arm and she took the film back. Kinda feel bad about it now, but I didn't know what I was getting into.

It amounted to a splice with one frame missing every two seconds, and it was plenty visible.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 26, 2009 11:42 PM

quote:
It amounted to a splice with one frame missing every two seconds

Waauuuw...so for a 3 minutes triller, how many splices are there?

And is the bandsaw prints only for triller or also or a feature?

cheers,

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Winbert

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 27, 2009 12:11 AM

some people claim that bandsaw prints are watchable -- I don't know what they are smoking - to me the constant splices with either a missing frame per splice, or if the damaged frame is not removed, then a visual pop (and often an audible pop) each time is enough to drive me bonkers after about 5 minutes.

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